Narcissism or Asperger’s? How to Tell the Difference

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  Glenn

  November 14th, 2017 at 6:47 AM

  Interesting question for sure. I love the comparative chart that you have listed above because looking at that you really do notice the big differences between the two; whereas if you are just looking at someone with their surface behaviors, you might think that they are one and the same. This is a great tool for breaking those similarities down and seeing where the real differences are.

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  Lynne

  March 15th, 2018 at 7:32 AM

  Yes I agree. Putting the list side by side made it easier to compare. Big thanks for that. I was a slow learner as far as see my hubby as a narcissist. Looking back the signs were there to be read. The internet wasn’t so easy 15 years ago so I did think it was me, being unwell added to my stress. Now I know for sure I’ve fibromyalgia and I’m dealing with it alone. I’m also 100% sure he’s a narcissist. So in recent years I’m stronger than ever and able to stand my ground. This brings out the worst in him ,but at least I’m no longer his whipping boy. I still get caught out from time to time but not often. I’ve a small group of friends so this support helps. Im family minded so it’s been difficult to put myself first ,but im learning. So good luck to anyone who’s in the same situation as myself. You need to free yourself and only you can do it. This doesn’t always mean divorce but you do have to develope self worth in spades.

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  Maureen

  August 25th, 2019 at 3:24 AM

  Hi I’ve been married to a man for 25 yrs I’m a lively & sociable 73 & he’s 64 , who I’ve always believed he is on the Asperger / autistic spectrum (not diagnosed ) he made me so ill with headaches & stress , & im not as vivacious as I used to be because of-my husband . I had to read up on why this man was different & now I understand him a lot better! But @ times he really gets to me & upsets me with his behaviour ! he a generous man, kind in a funny way, like washing dishes, hoovering, etc without asking. But he’s manipulative & very Nasty, when we have words and always blames me for everything within the conversation , if I make a comment he takes it a derogatory comment towards him & after 25yrs I’ve learnt how to word my comments, as I know he doesn’t take the blame he has the ability to make you believe everything that said is my fault ( he was like that with his 1st wife ) but cannot see it . I’m a laid back person & im used to him not talking to me & wanting his own space to do his own thing & not socialising , but sometimes he gets me so stressed I end up with a bad headache & feel sick. Like today 😢

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  Tom

  October 9th, 2023 at 8:41 PM

  It doesn’t matter what his diagnose might be. Leave for your own sanity.

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  Lurker

  November 10th, 2019 at 5:31 AM

  I thought the list was a bit one-dimensional and generalizing, in fact. For instance, I have autism, but I’m not one-dimensional, I behave differently around different people (as does everyone – you don’t behave the same way to your SO as to your boss and to your friends). Plus ‘not sensitive’ and ‘insensitive’ are the same thing, so I don’t really get why you didn’t just use the same word.

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  Emilie

  August 20th, 2023 at 7:21 AM

  While well intentioned, this article is reductive. I can say this as an Autistic womqn. There is not enough research into the Autistic experience and the comparison with narcissism. They are VERY different things. Autistic people need their inner experience to be the ‘symptoms’ they are diagnosed with, currently diagnosis is based on neurotypical peoples interpretation of Autistic behavior, and it’s very wrong. Please research the double empathy bind! Some Autistics are difficult and self centered, but most have too much empathy, it’s just expressed differently!

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  James

  February 22nd, 2020 at 9:31 AM

  I was partner of person with high functioning Aspergers for 18 years. We didn’t know until just before I left and we split up that she was on the spectrum. But it is definite now. There was an element of narcissism too. I had a terrible time, her anger and contempt directed at me, humiliating and really scary for me. Only when I moved out from the shared house did I lose my fear of her. Now we meet every 2 weeks, and have a chat and a coffee, we still have interests and ideas and views in common so plenty to talk about. Why did I move in with her when we first met about 20 years ago? I am also a survivor of pretty horrendous child sexual and physical abuse, starting in my first year of life and going on till puberty (age about 12 or 13) when the perpetrator lost interest in me and turned his attention elsewhere. I have read that child abuse survivors sometime drift into or plunge into abusive relationships as adults. I can understand this up to a point, but I am still researching the field of autism and narcissistic personality disorder, and retrospectively trying to make sense of my life. I have had a difficult life, one near nervous breakdown in my early 20s, averted at the last minute when I came across a book by J.Krishnamurti – and this writer and speaker and philosopher has helped me all my life, the insight I had back then stayed with me, without that I would not be here writing this. Then I had a full-blown breakdown in my early 40s, psychiatric hospital, sledgehammer antidepressant, suicide attempts etc. Then another decade or two of OK and good times, regular job etc. But the relationship was then, and hard, and without that relationship I mentioned, with the Aspergers/Narcissicistic person, I would not have had my second breakdown in 2015, which was more severe than the first, and took much longer to recover from. However I seem to have entered a happy final phase. I’m 73 now, and feel better than I’ve ever been in my whole life, more cheerful, creative, mentally aware and relaxed, etc. No more ongoing psychological/emotional problems. The last one disappeared somehow, I noticed, when I began to recover from the 2nd 2015 breakdown. I never solved it, it just wasn’t there any more. Weird, but I’m not complaining. I think I partly understand why it went but it would take a lot of explaining, and I’ve probably written enough in this comment.

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  Pryce

  November 14th, 2017 at 8:34 AM

  For the narcissist it is always about themselves and in a very selfish manner

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  Tatiana

  November 15th, 2017 at 11:20 AM

  I feel like you wrote this just for me. I want to be able to do more observing and not inhaling and absorbing that behavior, but you can probably tell that this is of course what I do. I let the way that others treat me and respond around me dictate how I then think and feel about myself. I know that this is the wrong thing to do but it is a powerful thing that certain people have over me, and try as I might, it is a habit that I have yet to be successful breaking.

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  Elizabeth

  December 20th, 2017 at 8:43 AM

  What should we do if our loved one possesses traits of both? For example, my husband does understand social interaction, uses silent treatment and guilt to manipulate me, and I have learned that I can most definitely not say no. However, he’s very one-dimensional and not connected to his feelings. He’s clueless about the damage he causes. And then on the flip side again, he definitely sits on the pity pot and blames others.

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  Robin

  March 14th, 2018 at 6:15 PM

  Elizabeth he is a narcissist, I lived with one for 38 years and he almost destroyed me and his family in the process of trying to be in control. It took me 18 months of visits to a psychologist before I could really step back and see what was happening, that’s how much he screwed with my brain. I have a 32 year old daughter who still lives with me and has high functioning autism, her personality is nothing like his was. His was all about him, him, him, her’s is more about where she belongs in this world and the bubble (as she calls it) she lives in and has to step out of to face what goes on in the rest of the world. He was a great one for untruths, it worries my daughter to not stick with the truth. Educate yourself on both afflictions, I found my final answer on a site called ‘First Wives World’ if I may add this here, it was like a weight lifted from my shoulders after reading the piece of information where someone else had suffered under a narcissist. I hope this helps a little to work out where your are at. Good luck but definitely question his actions in your own mind if you feel they are not right.

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  Elaine

  May 10th, 2020 at 2:16 PM

  Thank you so much for your comments on this website! I randomly searched and found your comments and felt like I found an answer I was long searching for. I am 72 (still feel young) :-). Married 49 years. He can be as sweet as pie and can be mean and cruel I suspected autisim (his nephew has a more than moderate case living with supervision in a home). Our grandson has a milder case but enough where you can tell he is in his own wonderful world. A truly beautiful person. I am aware there is no known info whether or not it is hereditary but always wondered because of others in our family with it. But after reading comments on this website I am totally convinced it is narcissism with my spouse. He meets ALL the criteria. His relationship with his Dad was very questionable. I believe his Dad AND Grandfather were the same controlling, hurtful type of people. Yet they can really convince people they are the nicest, caring, FUN people you would want to spend time with. But living with them 24-7 is a different matter. I have three GREAT kids. AMAZINGLY because of the way he was and because of my self medication with wine to get through this. I was always a very confident female who felt she could accomplish anything I put my mind to yet he would always have a negative or VERY INSINCERE comment in front of others about anything I accomplished in my life. If you listened closely you could almost hear the choking sound in his voice when he complimented me. I never actually BELIEVED the hurt words he would say but it would still hurt. I did VERY well considering my start in life. I feel fortunate that I STILL have that confidence and it has gotten me far and I believe it was because I had great parents (not perfect) but very good people who showed their love and support.. So all of his behavior never made sense to me. I just recently started therapy and was SO fortunate to find a great therapist. Unfortunately this pandemic has thrown a wrench in our meetings but I will see her again. What I have learned is he is who he is and he will never change. Just like I can’t change my introverted personality. I am working on how to ignore his behavior and concentrate TOTALLY on my own happiness. Think I am almost there. God I HOPE SO!!!.

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  marie

  May 22nd, 2018 at 12:07 AM

  Can I please get a clarification here?
  Is the author advocating that partners of aspies should stay? I really struggle with this because codependents are urged to draw boundaries with people who do not meet their emotional needs. Clearly, aspies struggle with meeting the emotional needs of their partners. But what I’m getting here is we should be more understanding and more patient in dealing with aspie partners because their shortcomings actually point to a developmental disorder.

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  Jason

  September 4th, 2018 at 9:50 PM

  It all depends on the person and those are on the autism spectrum are difficult to understand.
  Speaking from my own experience there is nothing I want more than to meet the needs of a partner and join with them spiritually. I haven’t had the courage to put myself back out there since an adult diagnosis because I want to get things right and don’t feel I’m ready. If you can sense this in a partner and you see enough of them to love them then it’s worth a try. Find out if he feels the way I do.

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  Mel

  June 1st, 2018 at 2:29 AM

  I think you are barking up the wrong tree – your first mistake is to assume aspergers and high functioning autism are the same thing – THEY ARE NOT! And from that point you are going down the superficial hill that most people go down when they do not have the skill, experience or knowledge of autism.
  Bottom line? Narcissism IS high functioning autism where intervention has failed and been fooled by a child desperate to survive and appear ‘normal’ as they approach teens and social survival starts to become paramount. Narcissism is nothing more that a set of hooks for the unsupported autistic mind to function.

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  Sabrit

  September 10th, 2018 at 6:06 PM

  “For one thing, both are on a spectrum. Narcissism is a personality condition that ranges from mild to severe. In the most severe instances, the person demonstrates sociopathic tendencies or antisocial personality. Autism also resides on a spectrum. It is a neurologically caused developmental condition. Prior to 2012, people with mild symptoms, considered “high functioning,” were identified as having Asperger’s syndrome. With the publication of the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), this label disappeared, replaced by autism spectrum.” Mel, how is your reading comprehension?

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  Alex

  June 27th, 2019 at 1:20 PM

  Very interesting. Can you tell me more about this? I am struggling with a manager who appears to have high functioning autism / narcissism. What you are saying definitely makes sense. How did you come to this conclusion? Any literature you can share?

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  Daniel

  December 10th, 2019 at 3:39 AM

  Holey moley, sometimes you have to go deep down in the comments to find the real deal :) Thanks!
  I cant even be sure where im on the parts of the list but im truly egoistic. I would start saving the world right now and accuse all the stubborn people like Greta does, this is how sociopathic i am. Some people just repeat research finding, as if this kind of research would be well informed lol. I have always wondered if im narcissistic not even considering im autistic. Well if i were i would surely read articles like this to find out sollutions for problems :p Anyway the consensus that narcissism is incurable seems a very challenging statement but it is beyond my scope to decide if thats true..

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  Reader

  March 27th, 2020 at 8:28 AM

  Mel, you are incorrect. Asperger and HFA are all Autism so they are the same, just a spectrum meaning traits that can range from mild to severe.

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  Lucy

  August 10th, 2023 at 2:47 AM

  No, autistic people are NOT ‘narcissists’. That is all completely wrong, everything you have wrote there, and very offensive. Narcissism, and autism, are polar opposites, and not remotely related. There is a huge problem, especially in the USA of misdiagnosing people you know. It’s complete ignorance. They are not even close to being the same thing, nor is narcissism the result of autism! Autistic people feel MORE than ‘normal’ people do, and are MORE empathetic than normal people. Which is part of why the world, and socialising is so difficult for us. You may want to look at the new, non abusive info about autistic people that has finally debunked all these discriminatory myths.

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  Isa

  June 23rd, 2018 at 2:27 PM

  Very good, helpful article. Finally someone who understands and indicates the right direction to deal with it. Thank you.

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  Robin S

  June 24th, 2018 at 6:15 PM

  I really don’t believe the previous person is correct. As I said previously I have a daughter (unmarried) who has high functioning autism, I have another daughter who doesn’t have autism, but has two children with it. A daughter who was recently diagnosed in the same autism range as my unmarried daughter, and a son who is much lower on the spectrum and yet another daughter in that family who is normal. Why this happened no one has an answer. All these children DO NOT exhibit full blown narcissism as my ex partner did. I have read a lot about autism and still have a lot to read to try to understand it. Aspergers is now spoken of as high functioning autism and is not labeled as narcissism. Yes these two afflictions are both on the autism spectrum, but are somewhat different. Narcissism is about control and lack of empathy and the worst are psychopaths, whereas high functioning autism tends to display quite a high intelligence driven towards a single aspiration of what interests them the most. There have been and are many famous people on this list, look it up. Yes they may not realise that their emotions confuse the more normal people, but they do have a certain amount of empathy. If they don’t then they are definitely in the narcissistic range. I have included a link if I may that may help with some understanding of the situation. https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/narcissism-vs-aspergers-how-can-i-tell-the-difference-1114174 . Research I have found has moved me forward in my understanding. But when researching have an open mind and don’t just research one article, there is a lot of rubbish on the internet, but there is also some very good information that can improve the knowledge of anything you want to learn about and especially the autism spectrum.

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  Freja

  August 17th, 2018 at 4:42 AM

  I am so glad I am not the only one struggling with this ‘diagnosis dilemma’. I am a 47 yo woman who has recently realised she is autistic and currently seeking a diagnosis. Asperger’s is simply the term used to define high functioning autism – they are diferent only by degrees. It is my understanding that autism is a developmental / ‘brain wiring’ difference and narcissm is a personality disorder. Yes both types are ‘egocentric’ and lacking in empathy but it seems to me the motives and methods are almost completely opposite.

  I was born into what seems to me to be a family of narcs and was terribly bullied, abused and scapegoated both as a child and as an adult – in the end I had to cut contact with my whole family. I now realise this constant bashing I experienced was in part because I was such an easy target as an autistic person and also a constant thorn in their sides because 1. I can not lie or hide my thoughts, opinions or feelings – what you see is what you get. Narcs want to be adored and to maintain control; if they pissed me off, I would not be able to hide it OR let it go. 2. I am VERY easy to wind up, tease and upset which absolutely delights the more sadistic narc. 2. I do not understand manipulative behaviour and fall into the same traps over and over again, even with the same person. 3. I do not play head games or understand why people play them, I therefore frequently end up being ‘the loser’ in social situations. Because my family were nasty game players, I became more desperate to fit in and then easier to use and manipulate. 4. I do not accept any kind of social heirarchies – to me everyone is just a human being. I cannot be subordinate to anyone, not even to try and ‘fit in’ or to ‘climb the ladder’. Narcs are all about the power and putting poeple in their place – i.e. underneath them. If I do not ‘go to my basket’ willingly, then I ahve found that the verbal attacks would become more and more hostile until eventually I would be physically attacked. 5. While I absolutely LOVE being right and will happily crow about it when I am, I am actually more interested in finding THE TRUTH than in being right and I can readily admit to being wrong or making a mistake. My family will do ANYTHING to avoid being wrong and to pass the buck – something I also take umbridge with. 5. I am obsessed with fairness, transparency and understanding ‘the rules of play’. I cannot help but point out any inconsistencies or double standards and am unable to take them in my stride or let them go. I do not understand why people do not ‘play fair’ or how anyone could willing hurt or gain pleasure from deliberately hurting another human being.

  I found this article really helpful and clarifying but because of my own autism, I still find it incredibly difficult to distinguish other people’s motives, especially when they seem to frequently chop and change. I was convinced my husband is a narc and left him because of it. I ahd to return to him and now think he is in fact autistic but had a very narc mother and grandmother who he learned to relate from – in other words he plays by their rules because that is all he knows. (He had no father or siblings and was very isolated growing up.) I wonder if perhaps Aspies who grow up with Narcs can take on some on their traits because they mimic to try and fit in. Any thoughts?

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  Elizabeth C

  March 28th, 2019 at 9:22 PM

  I wonder too about Aspies growing up with narcissistic parent. Do they take on some of those traits?

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  Robin

  March 29th, 2019 at 5:16 PM

  For some of you struggling with how Aspies think, I have been given a book written by a man who had Aspergers most of his life then found out he had it, it is certainly an eye opener to how differently they think. I liken it to the logic of the Vulcan in Star Trek. I now understand my daughter a whole lot better and why she thinks like she does. There is nothing really wrong with her she just doesn’t think like I do. The book if anyone is interested is ‘Look Me In the Eye.’ Most libraries have it and most bookstores.
  As to your question of whether they can pick up narcissistic traits from their parents, I believe any child can pick up these traits, as children we learned a lot by copying what we saw. Perhaps if they are seeing and are subjected to these traits then there is a possibility of developing them. My father was a horrible narcissist, my mother wasn’t, I began to take on his traits as these were the most ‘powerful’ in the house, then one day I realised I didn’t want to be like that, I preferred the gentleness, kindness and thoughtfulness of my mother, and hopefully I’m still that today as I reach my autumn years.

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  Aspie

  July 21st, 2019 at 6:29 PM

  I am just reading this, but I an a grown woman who has just been diagnosed with ASD level 1 (Asperger’s) and I have a sibling who I believe to be a narcissist. It was very difficult growing up with an older sibling who was very manipulative and all about self. She knew how to push my buttons, and even as an adult would purposely try to hurt me. No empathy! She is very confrontational and I do not like confrontation, so I have cut her out of my life as of now. I don’t believe she will ever change, but if there is a chance I would be willing to slowly, but very slowly let her back in.

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  Stephanie

  September 27th, 2023 at 10:58 PM

  I have an older brother who I believe is a narcissist and an older sister with undiagnosed autism. There are definitely times when their behaviors overlap, and I have been deeply hurt by both of them. But it does feel different with my sister. I do feel she genuinely cares for me and my other siblings. One of the things she struggles with is perpetuating a hurtful narrative started by the narcissistic sibling. Otherwise, it feels more like she is missing information about a social situation, not trying to harm anyone. I’m at a point where I don’t really want a relationship with my brother, but it’s more complicated with my sister. She is loving and does genuinely try to have a good relationship. It’s just in conflict with her, she starts to use some of the narcissistic brother’s tactics.

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  Robin

  August 21st, 2018 at 2:03 AM

  Hello Freja, I understand there are four levels of autism. Here is a link that gives quite a good explanation: autismspectrum.org.au/sites/default/files/Vic/The%20DSM%205%20Autism%20Spectrum%20Disorder%20criteria.pdf
  if I may add it to this reply.
  My daughter was diagnosed as Level 2, which describes her as socially unable to mix. This means being around people she doesn’t know causes her anxiety she can’t control, so to counteract this she retreats back into her safe place. She likens it to living in a bubble and when she steps out of that bubble and she can’t handle it, anxiety takes over. The anxiety she feels is not what normal people feel, where one can calm oneself to a certain degree. She experiences uncontrollable anxiety, apparently something that is unique and at different levels for those within the autism spectrum. When I read the report in the link, it certainly described her situation. I then went looking for more information so I could understand what I was dealing with better, and found the information about her bubble situation, explained in a different way, but meaning the same thing. This was a huge step for me in understanding how she felt. Life is much better now, I know not to expect her to do things straightaway, but to work up to them.
  I felt by explaining the above, it could help in knowing what level you’re on to know how to handle it. I found it very difficult to find someone that would diagnose adult autism. What prompted me, was that I have another daughter with three children, two recently diagnosed with autism. One 12 years and the other 6. I contacted her psychologist and asked if they tested adults. No, but was referred to another phone number. No again. So I did some ringing around different psychologist and was finally given the contact details of one that did. There was a wait to get in but in the end it has been well worth it. This is something perhaps to think about in trying to find a psychologist that will test adults, and what level you are on.
  Your life so far sound very much like you have been at the mercy of a number of narcissist. Its easy for me to say you need to get a different perspective on life. It has taken me several years to rid my ex from my brain. Reading about psychopaths and narcissists and the way they think was a help to me. It was actually a turning point in my life. There were a couple of sayings I came across that made me think, and I found they helped me as well. I have listed them here with a bit of an explanation, and perhaps they may be of help to you: a person is not responsible for how another thinks (in other words, do you expect others to be responsible for how you think? No. Then don’t be responsible for what they think); I am not my brother’s keeper (in other words everyone has a brain, what we do with that brain counts. If someone is doing something stupid, you cannot jump inside their brain to stop them, they need to use their brain to stop themselves, the responsibility is not yours.) With the last one, yes we can offer advice, but it still goes back to the individual to think for themselves. I hope I’ve explained it so you can understand what I am trying to say.
  Another idea, is to step back from your life and look at it from an outsiders point of view. As if you were a spectator, and watch the things other people do. I found it very beneficial. I did this to get my head around my ex (who was a psychopath) and asked myself, would I walk past him in the street, and the answer was yes. Do I really like this man, no. Does he do horrible things, yes. Is he manipulative, yes. I did this often to remind myself what I was dealing with.
  I think we get very lonely when living with these types of people, and we look for comfort, something they are incapable of giving. Perhaps stepping back from your family, husband and anyone else in your life, and trying to feel if they have good vibes (as my autistic daughter says) may allow you to find those you want in your life and those you don’t. I suggest walking away from those you don’t, and don’t give in to the guilt trip that you feel bad because you haven’t seen them, or some other guilt you feel. They are capable of approaching you. See if this happens, but be really careful when it does.
  You only have one life you can live, no one gets a second chance. I made that decision and I’m the happiest I’ve been in all my life. I don’t have a partner, I don’t need one, my brain is now at peace not screwed up by someone else trying to manipulate it. I do what I want now and make my own decisions without having to factor someone else in that wants to be negative.
  As regards your husband, step back, take a good look, you will soon work out if he’s worth it or not. Narcissists have a way of getting you back, it’s called guilt. There are many genuinely nice men in this world, but they don’t continually go on that life is all about them.
  I apologise for this being so long, but its a huge subject with a lot of traps for the unwary.
  An afterthought, research the effects of heavy metals and food additives. A load of these can affect decision making and make humans sick in many ways. I was somewhat ill mentally and physically. I was able to return to almost good health after eliminating pre made and eating fresh and foods with no additives. I hope I’ve now got an extra ten years up my sleeve.
  A hug for you because I think you need one, and I hope you can rise above all this to a better life.
  Robin

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  Tina

  February 25th, 2019 at 8:19 PM

  As Robin touched upon, I feel that we cannot begin to determine what is really going on with a person’s brain until their environmental toxins and deficits are corrected.

  Has anyone run across any studies of people who have had no vaccines or other exposure to heavy metals etc, who don’t use drugs including caffeine, and/or who take supplements including essential minerals, B and other stress vitamins? For that matter, people who get enough sleep, sunshine and fresh air? According to the film “The Magic Pill”, even eliminating carbohydrates can markedly reduce the symptoms of autism!

  THEN we could assess people’s true basic functioning, and start our therapeutic approach from there.

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  Joyce

  May 31st, 2019 at 10:48 AM

  My husband has some from both but primarily Narcissism but just got diagnosed in 1 hour for Asperger. I fell out of love about 3 years ago and only stay for financial reasons. I was desperate for attention and conversation and no abuse and so I had several sexual encounters that he just found out about and now I dont know how to end this all

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  Robin

  June 3rd, 2019 at 11:02 PM

  In recent months my autistic daughter and I have been trying to source books written by individuals who have autism to better understand what it is all about and how their minds tick. Because my daughter is a slow reader and finds it hard to take in all the information at once, I have been reading these books to her one chapter at a time in the evening. She has gained a great deal from some of the information and has been able to relate to information in these non fiction books. She now feels much better about herself and her anxiety levels have gone down somewhat. I have learned people with Asperger’s or autism as it’s now called suffer from a lot of anxiety. These books came from our local library and were suggest by a teacher who taught at a one teacher school and had to deal with an autistic child. The two books we have read are ‘Look Me in the Eye’ and ‘Born On a Blue Day’, if I may add them here. We then began watching a couple of DVD’s, one depicting Temple Grandin’s life growing up and her struggle with her autism. Another was made by the psychologist Dr Richard Eisenmajer called — Imagine Having Asperger’s Syndrome, A first consultation. In this DVD the doctor admits to his ideas about Asperger’s being wrong after meeting a very successful man who had it, but had the help of two very competent secretary’s to help run his business. The man spoke to the doctor about the world he see’s out there as being like chaos and how he needs order in his life. When I spoke to my autistic daughter about this, she said that’s how she see’s the world. It is also apparent that they can only process one thought at a time, and are continually on catch up throughout the day, a reason why autistic children come home like bears with sore heads. It was brilliant information and I now understand where my daughter is coming from and have adjusted the way I view her decisions and her actions. She has become calmer, I think mainly because she knows she is not alone but that she is one like many others out there. What I have written may not solve what people are experiencing living with individuals with Aspergers or Autism, but it may go a long way to understanding how they think and why some do the things they do and in turn may help solve a few problems. My daughter is 33 and she was only diagnosed last year. So I have had my time pulling my hair out and being hugely frustrated and desperate for an answer how to handle her. Not now, that I have my answers. My ex husband was a narcissist bordering on psychopathic. I lived with him for around 38 years and one of the worst things to be experienced is the manipulation and degrading of personal self and loneliness under the barrage of rot they seem to like to dish up. I’m not sure if what I have written will help but I hope so even if its just a little. Sending you a hug. Hang in there life does get better you just have to find that way out.

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  jean

  August 10th, 2019 at 3:18 AM

  I’m trying to understand my boyfriend of one year. We are both seniors and the idea of starting afresh at this age is daunting so I’m afraid to let go. He is very intelligent man but I wonder sometimes if he’s not on a spectrum somewhere. I might be too, just not as much as him so I try and sympathize with his unusual behavior but it’s getting harder to do. He’s a loner and so am I so I thought we’d be compatible. When I first met him I thought he talked a lot but he did ask me a few questions about myself and we got along okay. The more I got to know him I realized he would talk incessantly about himself, his daughters, his hobbies, his past job in law enforcement, his health. If I say something about myself or my family, he hijacks the conversation and makes it about him or his family. I’ve heard this called conversational narcissism. He talks in monologues which can go on for hours. I’m very patient with him. I’ve noticed when I interject a remark to change the subject, he pauses then launches right back into what he was saying, he doesn’t even register what I’ve said. He was talking one day about his job and pedophiles came up and I mentioned I’d been molested as a child. I had to tell him 3 different occasions the same thing before he realized what I said and was surprised. I almost left then and now wish I had before I got too attached. In the beginning he would say inappropriate remarks about other women in front of me telling me I was too sensitive when I asked him not to do that. He said I it was from a 30 year job in law enforcement where that is accepted but I think it’s just the way he is like he has no clue not to do it. After a month or so of this I asked my son and some male friends about the remarks and they said what he was saying was disrespectful to me and I should stop seeing him. I told him I would if he kept making these remarks more appropriate to a locker room so he put it on the “list” as he calls it and says when the list is too long we’re through. He tries to curb these comments but complains it’s stressful for him having to monitor his speech for me. Most worrisome is that he repeats the same stories of his job, his ex wives, his children like he’s never told them before. He can repeat a story so many times I have it memorized. I mentioned this to him one day when I’d had enough and he got very upset and said now he has to try and remember everything he says too and put it on the “list”. I felt empathy for that so I apologized and never mentioned it again. He doesn’t feel he does anything wrong and when I try to tell him how I feel and he calls them “lectures” and adds them to the “list”. I am very supportive of his family and I ask questions and give him feedback but even when I bring my family he doesn’t really seem too interested. We went away for a few days and I showed interest when we spent a whole day in a small town and he showed me every place he’d ever lived, worked, went to school etc. I went to visit a friend for a week and when I regaled him what we did he said “you talk too much about her” just blew me away considering the hours I’ve sat and listened to him about his whole life. He loves history with a laser focus and when we go places I’m expected to show the same level of interest he has or he thinks we’re not compatible. If I get upset about something he says I’m too sensitive and we’re not compatible. I care about him and don’t like pointing these things out to him as he says I look to make big deals out of nothing, they go on the “list” so now I’m beginning to wonder about myself. Nine months ago his 34 year old daughter moved back in with him after getting a divorce and had an old dog that had been living with her friend while she’d been married and now wanted it at her dads place to live with her. I’m allergic to dogs but it only mattered to him what she wanted. I can’t go to his house anymore so he comes to mine and can only see me the same days of the week, it bothers him to change the schedule, Mon, Wed, Sat evenings for the last 9 months now. He’s affectionate towards me and can be social with strangers but doesn’t seem to have many friends. I’m also affectionate and have no problem calling him sweetheart or hon etc but the only term of endearment he has for me after one year is “Missy” saying he’s just not like that even though he calls his daughter sweetheart all the time. Sorry for carrying on but he has traits on both sides of that list and I don’t know what to do. I’m not perfect either but telling him my point of view or that you feel left out or asking for the same emotional support I give him (my daughter is going through tremendous health problems) shouldn’t be called a lecture. I do care about him because I think he has a problem and maybe can’t help himself but it’s getting tiresome. We’re taking time apart now as he thinks we’re not compatible because I didn’t show enough interest in some historical place we were at and I lectured for an hour (was really about 15″) about a subject I liked while at another historical place and he feels the “list” has gotten too long.. Should I chalk it up or try to understand this affectionate but one sided man?

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  Robin

  August 11th, 2019 at 4:06 PM

  This appears as a very one sided relationship. Very much what he wants and not much what you want. It certainly has taints of narcissism. From what you have said, he considers you are the problem in this relationship and this is the reason why he is making statements that it is not working and he’s telling you this with his ‘list.’ This is typical narcissistic behaviour and is a tactic they use to demoralise and destroy the confidence of another person who allows them into his or her life. I wonder do you feel that the more he tells you it is not working the more you want to help him because you feel he has a problem you may be able to help with? The one thing narcissists don’t have is empathy. You certainly appear to have empathy, because by staying with him you feel you could help him. Perhaps a thought is to step back and look at him like he is someone you don’t know, someone just on the street. Observe his real behaviour without your emotional attachment. Like looking through real glass and not the rose coloured kind. Another suggestion, find your running boots before he drags you down and makes you believe you are all the things that are going wrong in his life. I experienced a narcissistic marriage for 38 years and was on the bottom rung of the ladder when I made the decision to get help. One divorce later and I am living the best years of my life now. Good luck.

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  Jean

  August 12th, 2019 at 3:18 PM

  The more he tells me it’s not working, the more I try and honestly it scares me to have to start over. I feel tremendous empathy knowing he’s probably had to deal with the way he is his whole life, him not understanding why he has run ins with other people. Like he has some wiring that’s off and doesn’t realize it. I have also been a little different, not to his degree but do know how difficult growing up and living like that can be. I wonder if I’m attracted to this kind of person because I understand and feel so much for them.
  I need to mention some good things about him as a partner so as not to appear one sided. He’s extremely intelligent, honest and dependable. I see him starting to ask me questions about myself because I think (hope) he’s beginning to care about me more. He compliments me on how I look etc, mostly physical things. A few times he said I was a good person. He says he knows he cares for me because he can feel it when he hugs me. He listens to me more and I take this as his caring more or me just learning to interject. He drives 20 miles to see me, we used to take turns but now I can’t go to his house anymore because of the dog. I do think his obsession with his daughter will go down somewhat once she leaves as the incessant talking about her although still a lot, was not as bad when she wasn’t living with him. He talked about moving in together when his daughter moves out in another year.
  I feel hesitant to move in with someone who has only shown “fondness” for me and still can’t refer to me by anything but my proper name or Missy. And I also feel he could dump me with one wrong word.
  If I try to see him through glass I can see that he is self-obsessed, opinionated, considers himself always right (which he almost always is because of his intelligence) can be arrogant and is consumed with his own family, their happiness and his health. He can say inappropriate things without realizing it. He’s repetitive to an almost pathological degree, telling the same story from start to finish sometimes day after day. He has almost savant like abilities with facts, dates, details – and questions if others really know what they’re talking if they can’t relate their knowledge as well as he does. This has happened to me several times. He is a movie buff and can watch the same movie over and over, sometimes within the same week. He loves sarcasm but sometimes it just sounds like disguised meanness to me and again I’m too sensitive if I say it bothers me.
  I feel there is something not right here, some kind of personality disorder which led me to your article on Aspergers. I didn’t consider narcissism but some of those traits fit too.
  When we returned from our trip after we had a falling out he said it’s just my personality to find fault with everything. I asked him if it was over and he said he’d let me know. After 5 days of texts on and off telling me he wasn’t feeling good (he did have a cold) and then not returning a phone call when he said he would, I very nicely wished him well and said goodbye. He responded that since I just couldn’t wait until he was better to hear from him, and since we had no interests in common, that some time apart would give us perspective. That was 10 days ago. We have texted since, friendly but nothing more. I am confused and broken hearted. Don’t know what to do, just not respond to his texts or keep the dialogue going.
  I’m so unsure of myself now, perhaps I am too sensitive and feel like I’m the one who has screwed this up by asking him to change behavior he can’t help. Thanks for listening.

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  Robin

  August 12th, 2019 at 5:34 PM

  He certainly seems to be a ‘box of tricks.’ One minute you are feeling ok about your relationship and the next asking yourself was it you that caused the situation where you needed time apart. From what you have said I can see a certain amount of manipulation going on. Perhaps if you did some research yourself on narcissism and manipulation you may get a better sense of whether this is happening to you or not. There is a site called First Wives World that may be of help as well. This is one that helped me to lift the clouds of confusion I had. One woman explained her narcissistic partner so well and all the things that had been happening to her and how she had such a guilt complex, that I could see my situation and this was a turning point in my life as well.
  He may also have a certain amount of autism. I watched a DVD recently by a psychologist called Dr Richard Eisenmeyer. The DVD was called ‘Imagine Having Aspergers Syndrome.’ He spoke about one of his patients having an attitude that he was ‘king’ and the rest of his family were his servants. Apparently it had been a nightmare situation for some years till they worked out where this young fellow was ‘coming from.’ Once they knew how his mind worked the parents put in strategies on ways to handle him and get him back down to their level. He also spoke about how a child with autism may come home from school and want to play a DVD, video game or such like, over and over in the same afternoon. He said it was the way they unwind their minds that are on overload.
  If this fellow you have been seeing does have Aspergers as you mentioned he watches the same movie over and over, you will need to learn as much as you can about the condition to be able to understand how to handle someone with it. I have a daughter living with me and she has level 2 autism. Very poor social interaction. I now know to be specific with the times if we are going out and not change them suddenly. This disrupts her organised thought patterns and she goes into ‘meltdown.’ Life is smoother now I know where she is ‘coming from.’ All I suggest Jean, is that you do as much research on both these subjects as possible to put you own mind at rest. Hope this helps.

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  jean

  August 13th, 2019 at 9:20 AM

  Yes you are right, some days I feel okay then others I feel I have failed and sad. Right now I’m being “benched” as they call it, left out of the game for not playing well. I will certainly go to that site as you suggest because as you can see from my texts I don’t know which way is up anymore – just that something is not right. I do think he has a certain amount of autism as I have read a lot on that even before I met him, it’s a subject that interests me considering my own thoughts that I may have a small degree of it. What was most interesting was how I recently read that there can be mixtures of narcissism and Aspergers (just called autism spectrum now) and that’s how I found your article. I didn’t realize that but it makes sense. I wondered how anyone with narcissism could show empathy or how people on ASD could be social. A lot to learn but worth trying. Thanks so much for helping me. Warm regards, Jean

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  Steve

  September 24th, 2019 at 12:00 AM

  Advices for someone in relationship with narcissist:
  1. Break up and never look back.
  2. Break up and never look back.
  3. Break up and never look back.
  4. Break up and never look back.
  5. Break up and never look back.
  6. Break up and never look back.
  7. Break up and never look back.
  8. Break up and never look back.
  9. Break up and never look back.
  10. Break up and never look back.

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  Jenny

  November 4th, 2019 at 2:20 AM

  Hi My name is Jenny. I have really been encouraged by reading your article and the comments different people have made. It has brought me to a place where I find myself valuating my life, my relationships. I am married and have been for 6 yrs. This is my second marriage. My first marriage was to my highschool sweetheard who I was smitten by from the minute I saw him the school playground at the age of 15. We married at the age of 22 and had 4 beautiful children together. Our marriage ended after 25 years and was through my choice in asking him to leave. I was an extremely broken person by the end of our marriage and spent many years working on myself as I have always been determined to want the best out of life. On the day of our court hearing for our settlement my barrister told me that my ex husband was narsistic which I had never heard of before and went home to try and find out what that meant. As I began to read it helped me greatly to understand our situation and how it had got to this place. I am an advocate for marriage, I believe in it and I greived greatly when my marriage ended. All I ever wanted was to be valued and to feel like I was an important person in his life. I now underdstood that this was something he was never going to be able to give me now matter how good, kind generous, forgiving I was. I had spent the past 20 odd years trying to help my husband and felt a tremendous amount of guilt because of things he would say to me. He was always right and I was wrong (even when I wasnt). From the very begining I was subjected to weeks of silent treatment and this would only end when I grovelled back to him and said sorry. For many years I idolised him, protected him and always put myself last in every area, even walking through a doorway etc. I also put in a huge amount of effort to let him know he was number 1 and no one would take his place. Living with a narcistic man I now see he had me just where he wanted me and that was always below him and to never feel anything good for myself. This took a toll on me after 20 odd years and dealing with the lack of self worth he so graciously gave to me, I ended up becoming someone I didnt particularly like, value or relate to at that stage, my self asteem was at an all time low, this was in 2007 and I was 43 years old, at this stage I was not wearing my wedding rings and I was now quite self absorbed and looking mainly at my own needs. This was not who I was and came to a pivitol point around that time, as I felt deep misery. I sat down on my bed, said a prayer and asked for forgiveness for the person I had become. I put my wedding ring back on and made a commitment to myself to do all I could to save my marriage. Over the course of the next 2 years I turned my life around and gave it everything I had, however it was not meant to be and I ended the marriage in April 2019. It was one of the saddest days of my life yet it was also one of the most powerful as I had spend a lifetime being controlled by this man I tried so hard to love. I look back now and the courage it took for me to end it was beyond me and something I have not ever regretted. I spent the next few years working on myself, looking after the family and working full time in an office which was good for me at that time. I was not looking for another relationship and did not date other men as I thought I had had my chance at marriage. I had something I needed to get done on my home and had an inspector come to take a look, he was nice and we chatted about the beach as we both loved it and had caravans not to far from each other. He contacted me about having a coffee however I made him wait for a couple of months, i just wasnt ready. I finally gave in and went out for dinner with him and we have now been married for 6 years. I feel totally blessed to have a 2nd chance and we have had a lot of terrific times together. He is kind, considerate, loving, thoughtful, caring and tells me everyday how much I mean to him and how loved I am. He is the most loyal and dependable person I know and treats me like his queen. I am very grateful he is in my life. In the begining of our marriage I did find it quite difficult to accomodate his ways which I believe I am a very patient and tolerant person but there has been many occassions where I feel very hurt. Over this past couple of years through my unconditional love for him he has come to the realisation that he does have aspergers syndrome and is now starting to understand himself and why he is different to most other people around us. I came from a home where there were lots of people always in our home and we shared everything we had. He came from a very isolated situation where he was taught only to depend on himself and never ask to borrow or lend off anyone else. Because of his homelife with his ex wife who was also a narsistic person that had major alcohol abuse issues and insisted on having 6 children (girls) he was totally burnt out by the time I met him even though his marriage had ended 6 years prior. He was a very hands on dad, but always felt like he wasn’t good enough not understanding himself with aspergers. We have both worked hard to make our marriage work but I felt so hurt today when he seemed anxious because my sister came to visit me, I have just had a major operation and she came over to give me some company and was gone before he got home. He seemed on edge when he got home from work. When he acts like this is really hurts me because I do put in so much effort to accomodate this situation with the aspergers, yet he can not relate to how important it is for me to have family and friends in my life. He is happy for me to do this but not in our home, especially when he is around or knows about it. My stuggle is how do I cope with this? I want to share my home with my loved ones but he makes it so unconfortable I have to do this outside of my home. I am greatly sadened by this and wanting to share my life much more with family around but because I loved him very much and need to accomodate his needs I’m struggling to find the balance. In the past I have family here If he goes away camping for the weekend etc but I want to be able to have my door open for them not just on those occassions…. Can anyone suggest what I can do ???? I’m sorry if I have rambled on so long I just needed to vent and don’t want to do this with the family because then they will think bad of him. He is a truly great person to me just not to others. Has any one else been through something like this?
  What can I do to help put some balance in this situation? at this point I feel like I’m over accomodating to his needs and not getting my own needs met. I don’t want to be selfish but I also need to know how do I have a voice in these situations? This is not something any of my family have had to encounter before and I really struggle with it.

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  Robin

  November 4th, 2019 at 3:15 PM

  Hi Jenny,
  I can relate to much of what you have said as far as the narcissistic partner, and how it destroys the very fabric of who you are. I may be wrong but from what I have read it appears you are still putting others ahead of your own happiness. Yes one doesn’t have to go overboard with putting themselves first, but they don’t have to give in to the whims of what others want to feel happy. One begins to get used if they give in too much, its human nature to like to get our own way.
  Aspergers in Australia is now called Autism and is on the autism spectrum. I have a daughter that is Level 2 on the Autism spectrum. Has huge difficulties with social interaction. She was diagnosed only two years ago and is now 34. She lives with me. The first thing I did when I found out what had been a troubling situation for so very long, was to learn what makes individuals with different levels of autism tick. It took me a lot of book reading and watching DVD’s to begin to understand where my daughter was coming from and it was very much of a relief to finally understand what I was doing wrong in the way I was handling her. I cannot change her, she is the way she is. She may be 34 but she is more like 22 in her mind, although she is very bright and creative. Now that I understand what makes her tick, I have been able to make adjustments to the way we interact and this has made our lives far better. I have set myself boundary’s as far as her stepping into my personal life, and I am the one who has to step her back if she over reaches, because she just feels she is trying to ‘sort it’. This doesn’t happen as much now . I am me and she is her, we need to remain our individual selves, not become someone that we are not.
  I also read an interesting piece of information recently and use this thought when I feel my mind is letting me down. It said that in our minds we have a ‘Mammoth.’ This mammoth is there telling us that we are no good, we should give in because of this or that, we should have done such and such better, I wonder what people will think of me now, etc. When I have these thoughts I think of it as the ‘Mammoth’ that’s weighing me down, and after a little practice I can now make that ‘lousy’ thought from my Mammoth disappear.
  All I can say from my own experience is to try to learn as much as you can about the condition to help with understanding it. You did it with the narcissism and here’s my congratulations for trying your best to understand that complex situation. My marriage ended after 38 years and I was a wreck, but with self help I feel I have bounced back to a new wonderful life.
  Good luck.

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  john

  February 3rd, 2020 at 3:13 AM

  excellent site. Well done.

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  Terry

  March 1st, 2020 at 3:19 AM

  This article is 100% correct.
  People making excuses for Narcissists, hiding what they are behind Asperger’s, which is not something to joke about, need to stop.

  Narcissists will use what they can to manipulate the situation, which then overlooks whatever tendencies they have from being racists, sexists, etc.

  This article is great and I love the comparison table.

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  mack

  March 22nd, 2020 at 1:17 AM

  the list of traits which supposedly apply (without variance) to “high-functioning” autistic people is insulting. people with autism are not identical in their behavior. i have autism and i’m not “one-dimensional”. i also don’t need somebody to “teach me to be different” like i’m some sort of showdog; if somebody feels that i need to act “different,” that feeling should be expressed during a calm confrontation in which both sides are allowed to express their needs so we can come to an agreement. again, i’m not an animal that needs to be trained. i also enjoyed reading your notion that autistic people are unable to correctly support their loved ones; thanks for throwing me under the bus by inferring that i’m somehow incompetent at anything my loved ones care about. also, autistic people, like every other type of human being, ARE capable of intentionally hurting the feelings of their loved ones. we’re also capable of doing it unintentionally, and sometimes that’s due to our autism, sometimes it isn’t, and sometimes it’s a mixed issue.

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  Robin

  March 22nd, 2020 at 7:05 PM

  When I read those two lists of traits, one for autism and one for narcissism, some time ago, I felt they were a basic set. There could be a variance either way for the autism and the same with the narcissistic traits. I feel there are no two individual people in this world that are the same or let’s say I have never met them, but then I am no expert on this. As you say autistic individuals are not all the same, I believe you are right and some do have a certain amount of empathy,— as my daughter has and I was told by several ‘experts’ that this is unusual,— but then there may be others that don’t exhibit much at all, so, they are said to not have any. Perhaps, unless someone who is really close to them, knows them well and can see it.— I am not talking about the narcissist here they are a different ‘kettle of fish’.— So is this why it’s called the autistic spectrum? Because there are many individuals that are not the same? If one reads up about some of the brilliant high functioning autistic people in this world, and individuals that have been perceived to be on the spectrum, some have done some amazing things. Nikola Tesla, Steve Jobs, Sir Isaac Newton, Michelangelo, Temple Grandin, Albert Einstein, Barbara McClintock, just to name a few. As my daughter says, those on the autistic spectrum are not quite the same as those, not on the autistic spectrum, but then she says she just doesn’t fit into the ‘guide’ of what a normal person in this world is expected to be. So when looking at the so called ‘normal’ people, how many different traits are there? There could be a level from the really dense types, right through to people that are amazing. So now, one might wonder, what is really meant by ‘normal’?

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  Robin

  May 11th, 2020 at 8:14 PM

  I do not live in the USA, but I do watch the news coming in from that country on the pandemic. I personally feel if anyone wants a good example of a full blown narcissist, the president of the USA is one of them. I really feel for the people there, they are getting many conflicting messages. He blames others for whatever happens, he was in denial at the beginning when he should have been organising the whole country to pull together, and it is still not pulling together. Too many deaths I feel that could have been avoided. These are human beings and he seems to brush them off like flies. So very saddening. I understand if you don’t want to add this comment to your site.

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  Nol

  May 23rd, 2020 at 10:29 PM

  Thought I would add my 2¢… I have been aware of having Aspergers Syndrome for 18 years (I’m 55 now), most of the above is true from a Nuerotypical point of view, I have been married twice, they both failed, after about three years, my first wife just got increasingly frustrated and angry, I became increasingly sad, as I couldn’t work out why she was becoming more angry and abusive. she left.
  about 5 years after the divorce I read about Aspergers in a magazine. Went to a specialist Doctor to be assessed and tested. He told me I have Aspergers Syndrome, I had books to buy and strategies to learn etc.
  I met my second wife, and same thing happened, but it lasted longer (the books and strategies worked). However after a while new events/situations became more frequent, and I had no clue or understanding to respond to them… same outcome, she left.
  These experiences and many many more in life, has contributed to a metaphor, this has helped me clarify what happens in life

  Imagine: group of 10 people in a room with a small bust in the centre of the people sitting around it, one person is totally blind (but he has no idea he is) The other seeing people dont know he’s blind but just has some peculiar mannerisms, everyone is talking about the lovely blue marble bust of a Queen. However the Blind person cannot fathom how they know so much about it, so he gets up and eventually fumbling feels the statue lifts it, the texture, centre of gravity and many extra details you get from that sort of examination ( please pretend everyone else didn’t notice the blind guy doing this) The blind guy tries to contribute to the conversation but no one relates to what he’s talking about, because they have only observed the colour appearance and possible texture. The Blind Guy starts is ridiculed because no one has experienced the Statue like him, some of the seeing may experience some of the things, but dont understand the blind man not knowing what blue was and what it depicted, the blind man man has a lot more information about the statue, but has no way of describing it the way most people see it. Some of the seeing form opinions, that the Blind guy is just being obstinate or purposely manipulative, because he knows more about the statue than the rest of the room, and pretends to not be able to describe the image or colour.
  Forgive my writing, im pretty rubbish at Grammar etc

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  Robin

  May 25th, 2020 at 6:41 PM

  I think you have just left a great piece of information. I don’t have asperger’s but my daughter does. To understand her better I read books, watched DVD’s and sought any other information that was informative. Yes, there can definitely be a difficulty mixing with ‘ordinary’ people, it appears to me that there is a deeper and more involved line of thought with someone with aspergers, whereas it is more surface thoughts with the ‘ordinary’ type of people, unless they actually specialise in a particular subject.

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  Nol

  May 26th, 2020 at 7:34 PM

  Thankyou Robin, I’m Pleased it was helpful

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  Mind-f'd

  June 5th, 2020 at 4:15 PM

  Do high-functioning autistic or aspies hoover?
  Do c-ptsd sufferers hoover?
  …or do these people require comorbidities with NPD (ASPD) and/or BPD to hoover?

  I was hoovered not once, not twice, but thrice by a woman I’m pretty sure has high-functioning autism and c-ptsd…that is, if her story checks out. That is a topic I will probably never find the answers to, because I finally lashed out at her in an unforgivable way after she ripped my heart out for the last time. I’m too strong of a person to let the pain and frustration linger for too long; but at the moment my curiosities are running on high, high octane searching for answers given the information and memories I have of our brief relationship.

  Any assistance with this will be highly appreciated and therapeutic for me.

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  Mind-f'd

  June 8th, 2020 at 2:19 PM

  In case anyone is concerned that I lashed out in a physical or highly abusive way to this woman, that is not the case. Yes, my emotions were running high and my feelings were very hurt; but I am a gentle, thoughtful person with many family and friends suffering from mental illness. I would never intentionally do to my people what was done to them. That said, she was abusing me over an extended period of time — whether it was High-functioning Autism, NPD, BPD, ASPD, C-PTSD, Substance addiction, or any number of combinations of these conditions.

  All I said to her was that she struggled with things like object constancy and devaluation etc. I told her it was rooted in her traumatic past and are the primary reasons that she treated people who cared about her poorly. In hindsight, I regret offering any armchair diagnosis, even though I’ve spent many many hours studying these things for my sake, her sake, and our families’ sake. I shouldn’t have done that. I could easily be wrong about what I said. I probably triggered her to self-medicate. I feel terrible about what I did. It’s possible that my subconscious just wanted that bridge to burn once and for all.

  I will say that one of the saddest things I have been thinking about her, and about anyone with mental health conditions like the above mentioned is how much danger they could be putting themselves in if left untreated. Not everyone is as gentle and understanding as I am. Not everyone wants to help like I do. There are getting to be a lot of predators out there who are weak-willed and have no self-control. They say narcissists and sociopaths prey on nice people and people with compromising mental conditions.

  If you are worried about the mental health of yourself or someone you care about, prioritize it. There isn’t much more important than mental health.

  I wish everyone a safe journey.

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  Psych

  July 4th, 2020 at 12:51 AM

  Narcissism actually exists on a continuum where at it’s most severe you have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), not Antisocial/ Sociopathic personality as is suggested in the article. Both NPD and Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD) exist in the DSM-5 (manual of mental disorders). Sociopathy or it’s synonym Psychopathy is not listed as a mental disorder, instead these personality traits are covered within the diagnosis of APD.

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  Lucy

  August 10th, 2023 at 2:57 AM

  No, that is not correct. ASPD (anti social personality disorder) is a cluster b, dangerous personality disorder, which on the LOWEST end is narcissism, and the highest end is psychopathy. I had an ex diagnosed as one, which was kept secret from me, until it was too late. I had to learn everything about it, and a million other things I didn’t need to…..they are also not remotely related to autism, which I have. In fact, autistic people are some of the most likely to be abused, and by people with ASPD. Many things stated here are so far off from the truth, it’s shocking, but not really surprising….For example, autistic people are highly empathic. More so than neurotypicals. The fact ‘normal’ people cannot interpret that, is a reflection of their own lack of awareness, not ours. We feel things so intensely, we try to avoid them, because we get sensory overload, that is the basis of our condition. People with ASPD on the other hand, literally feel nothing, and not intensely, other than anger, and boredom. They cannot love, they cannot empathise, they cannot feel sadness, fear, or pain, and everything they do, and say is a lie. Autistic people are not robots, and we are very deep. If someone autistic acts badly, it’s nothing to do with their autism, but simply their personality, like anyone else.

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  Jill

  September 10th, 2020 at 2:52 AM

  We’ve been married 32 years and I was a therapist for 20 of those years. I diagnosed my husbands Aspergers and found ways of managing it within our relationship. However the lack of empathy leads to narcissistic behaviours and a misunderstanding of the real cause of symptoms. I get silence which is painful to me but caused by his inability to communicate. If I give him space he finds the words. He does what’s right for him because he struggles to understand what’s right for others. So he’s selfish – but I know where I am with him because he can’t play emotional games like ‘normal’ people can. I guess we choose our own poison.

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  Artemis

  October 15th, 2020 at 1:53 PM

  What I miss most is mature, non agressive companionship and normal discussions which do not become arguments which he has to win. I felt I had accurately diagnosed him as an Aspie many moons ago, wirh no empathy and it did feel better when I realised it was not all my fault. Recently however I have observed other traits which seem to indicate a rype of narcissim. I did wonder whether someone could have both – which is what brought me to this page. Another factor in his behaviour is that he is affected mentally by being disabled and unable to do much except sit around. He clearly resents that. But he also has always needed to be in control and cannot accept the thought that he is not so does all he can to remain in control. After over 30 years I have been worn down and become apathetic, permanently tired, lacking in motiviation and unable to find much joy in my life. There is no way I can leave – apart from the fact that he could not manage without me, I am 83 and not able to consider going elsewhere – I have no friends or family, I would be on my own. My main problem is that I still keep forgetting that I cannot treat him as a “normal” person, so I make problems for myself. As far as possible I stay away from him and try to remember not to start a conversation. He hates being interrupted when he is doing anything, or even just “thinking”. but regularly interrups whatever I am doing to demand attention NOW. He is capable of being quite charming when he wants to be and has three lady friends who think he is wonderful. I just wish I could manage better. All the self help books provide the type of suggestions suitable for a 35 – 50 year old still in work, with children and friends and a reasonable partner, who is thought to be wanting to get on and achieve “goals” My only goal is to get through another day.

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  Jo

  March 10th, 2021 at 10:51 AM

  Is it really fair to say that those with Asperger’s and HFA lack empathy? Hasn’t it been stated (or proved) that these people actually over-feel way too much but find it difficult to process their emotions externally/outwardly? One way of proving they do indeed have empathy, is the evidence to show those in the autistic range often have a deep affinity with animals and feel very much at ease around them. Someone, like a narcissist/psychopath/sociopath couldn’t give a toss about pets and animals unless it benefitted them socially. That is because they lack empathy. But I’m not so sure this is correct for those on the autism spectrum.

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  v soar

  March 11th, 2021 at 9:16 AM

  I get your point. It may be that people with Aspergers are as varied in their characters as other folk, some of whom are incredibly cruel to animals and some of whom love then to bits. -Animals are generally uncomplicated and undemanding in the relationship department so there would be no pressure. My husband is fine with animals but has problems with humans. As to empathy, that of course is the ability to put yourself in another person’s situation (or shoes ! ) and sympathise – and I think that may be where some people with Aspergers may have difficulty. My husband certainly does.

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  Robin

  March 11th, 2021 at 4:29 PM

  My personal view is that some on the autism spectrum can relate to animals far easier than they can to their fellow humans. Animals don’t ask for emotions to be laid bare, they don’t expect any kind of social level from a person, they accept a human as they are and from what I have observed some on the autism spectrum put an animal above any friends on their friends list, because animals don’t put humans down as stupid, beneath them, inferior, and all the other stupid belittling emotions that circulate in society these days. Yes, autism is not easy to understand, but learning about it helps with understanding where that person on the spectrum is, and makes for a far easier life. My though’s anyway.

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  Jean

  March 13th, 2021 at 9:39 AM

  Well, finally after two + years with my boyfriend I finally got the courage to leave. I realized he does have some aspects of Aspergers but more of narcissism. l also learned about baiting because I realized he does it all the time and I tried to emotionally distance myself from his remarks. I was successful except on two occasions where I completely broke down. The last time was when I left. He kept talking about a woman he knew bothered me and I kept asking him to stop and was getting very upset. He then showed me her photo on his phone and I lost it, knocking the phone out of his hand. My reaction scared me and I finally left him for my own sanity. I don’t know why I can’t stop caring about him. He goes to help his ex wife in another state and sleeps in her bed because she has a tiny place. He says there’s no sex and professes confusion as to why that would bother me. He asked “is it the closeness that bothers you?” Either he’s pretending not to know or he really doesn’t get it. We’re still talking a month after I left and he knows I still have feelings. He told me he’s leaving to help his ex again knowing how hurt I was the first time. What do narcissists get out of hurting you or making you mad? How is that to their advantage?

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  Robin

  March 13th, 2021 at 11:45 PM

  I totally agree with you. Yes, they are as varied in character as other folk.

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  Robin

  March 14th, 2021 at 4:25 PM

  You need to cut the string he has attached to you. When trying to leave a narcissist it is hard and they will keep pulling you in if you let them. I was advised ‘no contact’ is one of the best ways. This can be difficult, but I found if I distanced myself and stuck to the basics and very few of those, and avoided being baited, narcissists are very good at baiting, I could then walk away each time. Narcissists will try to reel you in by saying nice things, and if you let your guard down, they have you again. And it starts all over, the hurt, the misery, the messing with your brain and all the other stuff that goes on. Cut the string. You be the one in charge, not him. He is only playing with you. Step back and really take a look at him. If he was a stranger would you size him up for what you might think he is? Think about all the mean things he’s done to you, not the good things, and you may find there wasn’t that many good things anyway, if you put the good and bad side by side. Your new life is just waiting for you to find it.

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  Jean

  March 15th, 2021 at 1:39 PM

  You are so right Robin, It’s exactly as you say where I’d give another chance and the misery would start all over again. I have cut all ties with him. It’s the only way, he’s toxic and it won’t ever get any better. It was amusing when I read your sentence “think of all the mean things he’s done to you, not the good things….” and my immediate thought was, what good things? your next words were, “you might find there wasn’t that many good things….” How true, there was only feeling dehumanized and worth very little to him. I’m seeing it from a distance now and shaking my head that I put up with him for so long. I am finally free from the emotional yoyo that was my life and feel such relief. Thank you for all the advice.

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  LadyJay

  May 29th, 2021 at 2:11 PM

  I just came to the understanding that narcissism is a spectrum, and that my mother might be on it. Going by this chart, I have no idea what to believe now. She has equal parts of autistic traits AND narcissistic traits! We have a good relationship, and she has a learning disability which makes me learn more towards autism, but there are some glaring narcissistic traits as well.

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  v soar

  May 31st, 2021 at 2:21 AM

  LadyJay – you have found what I have found. it does seem possible to have both – or at least traits of both. I am so pleased that you have managed to have a good relationship with your mother. For many of us that is something we can only dream of. I have also recently realised that there is a recognised name for how my hub makes me feel “energy vampire” . People who seem to drain you most or all of the time.

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  Patricia

  June 10th, 2021 at 3:50 AM

  Interested in Asperger’s syndrome.

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  Frances

  June 10th, 2021 at 3:32 PM

  So I have a confusing situation, please bare with me. My child has been diagnosed as being Autistic. We have also reccently found out that not only is it likely to be on my partners side of the family but also on my mothers side of the family (yet to be officially diagnosed but very likely). I also believe I am Autistic (currently undiagnosed). The problem is I know my father is an narcissist, I have thought that for many years. I did briefly contemplate he may be autistic given there are some similarities in behaviour but on reflection I don’t believe this to be so. But I do believe my father thinks completely different to other people. Other than that he completely fits the description of a narcissist not someone on the spectrum as per your chart above. He is oddly competitive with me and mirrors whatever I do achievement wise or what I have going on with me in my life he thinks he does too. He’s always been like this even as child he would compete with me and show me how he did things better than me.
  So I told him I reccently did an Autism quiz and it came back saying I was very high on the autistic side of the spectrum and should get assessed. Here is the problem that confuses me. He told me he did a quiz too and it came back saying he was likely Autistic. Now I’m not sure if I believe him. My father has a warped sense of reality, but at the same time he is quite anti social and has reccently had issues with anxiety. My question is, is it possible for someone who is narcisstic to have a result from one of these quizzes that comes back saying he is likely autistic when he is not? I really don’t think he is Autistic. I tried to encourage him to get himself assessed but he said he didn’t see the point given his age he didn’t think it would be beneficial. Which makes me suspicious. Is it common for people to be a narcissist and be Autistic? Although I still don’t believe he is. Before anyone says does it matter which label he has or if he has one at (because I do get these questions so please don’t think I am being rude or aggressive). It is very important to me. I need context for everything to understand it. And in this situation knowing he is a narcissist has taken a lot of my wounding away from our very difficult relationship and I have come to terms with how our relationship is. It’s helped me work out my boundaries much better and he is easier to manage now that I can see what is happening. I’m sure many of you can relate to that, but there is always someone who doesn’t get it or is trolling.

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  Hy

  June 11th, 2021 at 10:11 AM

  I think psychiatry is missing out when acting as people with autism can’t have any personality disorders. It goes against that 1-dimensional description. I had no less than 3 personality disorders in a span of 10 years before getting an autist diagnose. And before that beeing erronously diagnosed having Schizophrenia simplex. Now they act as those never existed. There’s likely been more erronously diagnoses in history. The unabomber didn’t want to be touched by his parents when child and more autismtypical traits. Perhaps he acquired a paranoid personality disorder on top of that or at least depressive traits. He sure as hell wasn’t schizophrenic. His main source was Jacques Ellul and his manifest was totally coherent. Another candidate could be Anders Breivik interestingly enough having copied and pasted bits from the unabombers manifest changing “leftist” to cultural marxist. Autism and a Narcissistic Personality Disorder could suit him? Why would there not be any DSM explanation for people having autism doing something shitty or is “the 1-sided autism made him/her do it”?

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  Robert

  June 16th, 2021 at 10:22 AM

  My mom’s husbands seems to have both Asperger’s and covert narcissism. He has qualities from both sides of the chart straight from the top to the bottom. I feel so sorry for my mom who has lived with this man for thirty six years…

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  Patrick

  July 9th, 2021 at 7:59 PM

  Goodness me. I’m super confused for myself right now (and how narcissistic is that right out of the gate!!). …

  I’m in a 30 year relationship with an empathic woman who is just wonderful. She has worked through her own massive emotional abuse growing up and I am in awe of her as a person. I idolize her and at the same time she challenges me to a degree where I can barely think straight when she asks me questions. The light she shines on me is scary at times.

  She’s not trying to be mean. Quite the opposite. I just feel so incapable of meeting her needs in terms of being empathetic and sympathetic to her emotional needs. She was always the ultimate giver and forgiver.

  That’s changing because she has done so much therapy and is in a healthier place than she could ever have hoped to be. And I’m now again trying to keep up.

  Here’s the kicker though: I think I might be somewhere on the autism spectrum AND a narcissist. I tick many of the boxes of the list in this article and it’s so confusing.

  I know in my heart that I’m not a bad man. But … I keep hurting her by my crippling inaction on a bunch of things like keeping up with bookkeeping for our business (which puts her financial security in jeopardy), or getting life insurance for myself. I don’t intentionally do these things, but the result is the same: hurting the one person I have in my life (I don’t have friends or family aside from her).

  I’ve started to see a counselor to gain better understanding of myself and to try to change … but I’m now worries that maybe my narcissistic side is manipulating this poor fellow and we’re just pretending to deal with things that aren’t the root cause of my problems that ultimately present as abuse or neglect of my spouse.

  I honestly don’t know if I would bother with therapy if not for the potential to help improve my marriage as we both move into our middle age (which I’ve heard can be a turning point for many/most). We have mused together over the years that we are on our marriage version X.0 (I think we’re on 6.0 now), but this time is the final time she’ll put up with my shenanigans. I know that for sure.

  It’s a weird feeling to feel both incapable of understanding why you do certain selfish things (and want to stop), and still do them. Time and time again. I would have thought either you do them willfully or your are unaware of them altogether. Maybe that’s just evidence that some things can be more than one thing, and that someone can be a bit Aspergers AND a bit narcissistic.

  That’s a bit of a rant folks, and I’m not sure why I’m posting here … I guess because I would certainly welcome any thoughts from anyone who has been is a relationship with someone like me (or who is like me).

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  Peterpiper

  August 4th, 2021 at 10:02 AM

  I have been with my partner for more than 12 years now. He has recently come to terms with the fact he may have high functioning autism. I however also suspect him of being a narcissist.

  Ever since we got together he has been judgmental, critical, controlling and insistent on being right about everything. He will pick up every small thing around the house I do, particularly when he gets stressed. That may be that I’ve touched a window with my fingertips, or dropped something on the floor, or laughed too loudly. He made me cut ties with a lot of my friends shortly after we got together, because of them being aware of my sexual past, because of him feeling ashamed of me, and being associated with someone who’d done certain things. Overtime, he has also changed to do some of those things too.

  He has not worked for 10 years now (he’s 46) and I am the only person bringing in money. We live in London, and its expensive, and we rent. He has hated every place we have rented, and spent most of his time we have lived in places demanding we move out and me dealing with every issue he’s had, which is basically about noise. I have lost count of how many emails I have sent, doors knocked, letters posted, complaints to councils made, about the noise neighbours we have had make. I dread moving house, because I know as soon as we move in he’ll be telling me we need to move out. We have been in our current home for four years, and its part of a rental scheme where the rent is below market value. Its the largest and best appointed flat we’ve ever lived in, but I’ve been looking for two years to move out and barely found any place that meets our standards. Instead of him understanding our limited funds, the needs he has, and the terrible ripoff the rental market is here, he just keeps insisting its all my fault and my bad choices. He basically accuses me of trapping him here, not caring about his needs and mental health, that I am a failure. He has refused to look on property websites because its too stressful, and he’s ‘fed up of seeing the same old crap’ but then the minute he gets stressed accusing me of not doing enough to find us a home, caring too much about being cheap, and that I’m selfish. I’m not being cheap, but of course he refuses to understand all the other things that need spending money on. That includes his dental work.

  He is obsessed with his teeth. He has reason to be upset, as successive dentists have not what’s been needed and left him with some problems. However he spends upto 2 hours a day looking at them. He then insists I look at them several times a day, tells me hates them, and he can’t cope with how upset they make him. If you saw him, you’d think nothing was out the ordinary. When we watch TV, films etc. he’ll often make comments about other people’s teeth and how he wishes his looked like that, or says things like ‘I bet they don’t have the problems with their teeth I do.’

  I am just exhausted by it all. He keeps demanding support, care, listening, which is reasonable, but I get very little. He never asks how I am, and only asks what I think about something to help him make a decision, because he’s incapable of making them. I work full time, I do all the cooking, shopping, life admin, as well as lots of cleaning. He makes the bed every day and sweeps the floor, and asking more than that is too much.

  Am I with someone autistic, a narcissist, or both?

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  Trisha

  August 4th, 2021 at 5:34 PM

  We do not lack empathy, we have great intuition altho it can be difficult for us to understand it, and some of us are definitely sensitive. This “article” is disappointing.

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  Shirley E Hinman

  September 2nd, 2021 at 6:27 AM

  I’ve lived with a Narcissist/abuser now for almost 44 years. I have my own life I’ve developed, (reinstituted) although that wasn’t easy as I also have some severe arthritis to deal with from accidents, etc. I had to get my teaching license renewed and finally retired as a teacher. I had to have my own money and life, interests, friends. There was physical abuse, but I called the cops often and also separated once. If he weren’t so old as he is, (8 yrs older than me,) with mitigating family concerns, I’d divorce now.
  I firmly believe he has Aspergers(autism) AND malignant narcissism/obsessive compulsive disorder. verging on psychopath too, since he sat on me when I was pregnant and cut my wedding ring off with wire clippers once. He’s very “religious’ with the cloak of being a christian. He’ll put bible verses all over, and “goodie two shoes” verses on his wall in his office, like “when I’m home, I’m not at home” etc. If it weren’t that he’s antisocial and gives me the silent treatment through the week in his office, I couldn’t survive, since we are both largely at home. I’m retired but have gotten into some helpful groups and have developed friendships over the years, in spite of my about 50% introvert personality. I’ve found I can be friendly and develop some important close relationships, inspite of the stubborn Narcissist/autistic barage of put downs and emotional abuse from him. You have to live your own life and have your own friends with these satanically possessed individuals. We all have our problems, and sin. But there is a big difference from one who knows he/she needs help and one who thinks he/she has all the answers and is always right, because they want to cover up their demons. I’m a Christian and like the verse that says “He that covers over his sins shall not prosper” and “vengeance is mine, I will repay’ and “he who troubles his house shall inherit the wind”. ” A double minded man is unstable in all of their ways”. This kind of relationship is hellish and I would advise anyone going through it to leave if they are in the earlier stages of their marriage/or life. These guys generally don’t learn or change. You have to change yourself, of course with God’s great help and leading.
  I definitely think Autism comes first, with Narcissism, sociopathy, abuser last…….I think Autistics probably learn to “copy” and emulate others in their early years, and when frustrations of adulthood keep coming, they go into the mean, raging, boastfulness of Narcissism. They may try to keep their “demons at bay” until the demons pounce on them and take them over. (seared conscience)

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  Ellen

  October 8th, 2021 at 8:45 PM

  The Aspergers description is clumsily written and inaccurate. Autistic people struggle with theory of mind issues, not insensitivity nor one-dimensionality. Furthermore, many on the autistic spectrum are hyper-empathic and hyper-feeling, and if you speak with autistic people, you would know that. When autistics and allistics communicate, it might come across that the autistic doesn’t care, but the core difference between them and someone with NPD is the intention behind their actions. The average autistic person is very well-meaning, but misunderstood. The narcissist harms other people because they are harmed themselves.

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  Catherine

  November 26th, 2021 at 7:27 PM

  This article generalizes far, far too much for it to be trustworthy. For example, many people with “high-functioning” autism are capable of manipulation, guilt-tripping, and not allowing you to say “no”. In fact, their lack of understanding of social cues, situations, and intentions can make many of them more likely to manipulate —even if it isn’t entirely intentional. I experienced first-hand an autistic person who didn’t allow me to say “no”, heavily used guilt-tripping, and overall emotionally manipulated me through means of guilt in order to get what he wanted from me. And it was clear, looking back, his autism was in fact a bit to blame. I’m guessing he didn’t understand that his guilt-tripping behaviour was in fact guilt-tripping and would cause me to feel horrible, because he has the autistic trait of not having some of that surface-level emotional and situational understanding. I’m sure there are probably more issues with this article. I didn’t even read any further than those points I mentioned.

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  Talulah

  December 4th, 2021 at 3:02 AM

  Ugh. This article is painfully outdated and misinformed about autism – which makes me question the other things it says too (though not everything is wrong). Some autistic people can lack empathy (but only through not understanding a situation entirely – once you explain what is going on they will show huge sympathy and understanding for the situation). Other autistics actually have an excess of empathy- a bit like the HSP (I wonder if all HSPs are actually autistic but that I don’t know). I wish people would actually ask autistic people before writing about them. There are so many toxic and dangerous beliefs out there as a result of neurotypical people writing about autism. It does a lot of harm – how many people do you think don’t get diagnosed because they have lots of enoathy so therefor believe they cannot be autistic? How many diagnosed autistic people get pushed aside due to this belief? It’s a good idea to leave writing about autism to autistics. I know that doesn’t work so well for narcissists though, given the often extreme lack of self awareness. I suspect that will be a harder mystery to unpick. It would be good if this article was at the very least amended because it still comes up in search terms and it is perpetuating harmful beliefs.

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  Rachel

  December 8th, 2021 at 11:26 AM

  I have a stepmom with narcissistic traits and I have autisim, and this article is so right… We don’t get along very well

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  Robert

  December 21st, 2021 at 12:00 PM

  I think I may be a Narcissist/Sociopath. What can I do to recover from this personality disorder? I keep reading that we don’t recover but I i imagine there has to be something that works, both for me and people that encounter me.

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  Belinda

  January 2nd, 2022 at 5:56 AM

  Some very dangerously incorrect information about autistic people here, probably better for you to leave it to actually autistic people. Some pretty disturbingly backwards and stereotyped views are portrayed here and really need amending, I.e empathy and sensitivity .

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  Kitler

  February 8th, 2022 at 11:47 AM

  To Maureen, no chance this allows comments these days or that you can check this – but in case it works and anyone reads –
  did the husband have head injuries in the past? All men, whether having pituitary damage or nor are already in a testosterone-diminishing environment, and testosterone gets lower with age. It is not 100% of course – but the symptoms you describe are also expected with both low testosterone and therefore can start even before 40, but also due to head injury – or events replicating the inflammation of head injury, e.g. metal poisoning, food intolerance etc
  The only other thing in science is something more of the soul more than “psychiatry” which I feel someone should point out, as with the so called DSM is absolutely NOT science – so it is at best irrelevant to mention this offensive publication. Or do I need to paste in quotes from former chief editors of this, trashing it absolutely as pseudoscience?

  Dr Rich

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  Sue

  February 8th, 2022 at 12:29 PM

  To Shirley E Hinman
  “You have to live your own life and have your own friends with these satanically possessed individuals”
  yes. Am not religious, a scientist but not a materialist. Just a true scientist in the tradition of Dee Bacon Plato etc
  And you are correct. You dont need a religion to know that demonic possession is real, just because materialism denies it.
  Why are people meeting the possessed etc in the first place, let alone staying 25 years? Is this just normal for your country?
  On the general issue – what is most tragic about all these discussions, as well as the reality of the negative people and the denial of causes physical and otherwise – is that these victims on both sides of abuse – are using the language of the “psychologist” and “psychiatrist” – you havent realised that they are your enemy to be simplistic – because they’re false narrative is trapping you from getting help for yourself or the family –
  please allow this thought (it is a fact to the normal smart person but it could get you censored online to mention it)
  these so called personality disorders simply do not exist
  there I said it, is the world still running?
  If we can generate these so called “disorders” in humans and animals (unethical I agree) with basic methods of no surprise to the modern up to date (i.e. functional) neurologist or neuroscientist…
  then what is the problem ? Why the denial (apart from the drug industry yes but apart from that)?
  Every real symptom can be explained by a combination of biochemistry and consciousness studies – none of which needs any of the cult speak of psychiatry. Brain injury, leaky BBB, food intolerance, extreme B vitamin deficiency / MTHFR and epigenetic (also mineral and toxicity problems) disturbance, Magnesium deficiency, autoimmune disease (caused incidentally also by modern wheat and A1 milk (BCM7) inc. Schizo.), general poisoning – mould, pesticides, F-, pharma, do I need to add heavy metals and Aluminium to all this??
  What I do need to add to this is even more obvious that say, dont put Hg and Al into people…
  and that is, yes, the non-biochemical, non-material aspects and also non-spiritual –
  the actual psychology .
  People can tolerate some poisoning in the above or they can tolerate being in anti-social clean environments – but they can not do both –
  we live in a world of extremes of both – and there is your answer. The only question is – “why isnt everyone mentally ill?”
  The answer is that they are.
  Look to any anthropology. The tribal cousins do not have these so called disorders. They live in an extended family, not in virtual worlds online without real contact, eye contact, touch, smiling, day light. They do not ignore each other for a power trip – the absolute norm in modern society, in person or online communications. Even 100 years ago, it would be very rude to ignore a letter. Now ignoring email without consequence is standard. Even with people you once knew well.
  Am saying that all these DSM inventions, are real yes, but not as these frauds explain them. They are the predictably outcome of antisocial society as normal. People living on devices, with bluelight burning their retina and corneas.
  Industrial society has encouraged narcissism from the start – each level of so called progress, is actually only progress toward pure narcissism all round. The car, the TV, feminism, the internet, and now, unashamedly – the smart phone – you can go back and say the mirror of course. People here are depressing not just because they suffer but because they are accepting the lie that this is normal. It isnt. Read some anthropology. A tribe can not afford narcissists which means it isnt human, of nature.
  People stop accepting non-sense from pseudo-experts and get some big perspective on life. Eat clean, detox, stand in a forest in the sun.
  And yes if you can get away from the blackhole like spirit of these people you are unwittingly facilitating.
  Good day
  Mary Hinge

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  Joanna

  March 1st, 2022 at 8:27 AM

  Six months ago I had a friendship with a chap who, now I believe, is on the Autistic/Narcissistic spectrum displaying unusual behaviour from time to time. I’ve been married a couple of times and had different intimate encounters along my journey in life, and also a 30yr friendship with a man with, what I described as a condition. He knew he wasn’t marriage material which I deeply respected, mainly because he didn’t want to be responsible for a wife or children. He developed Alzheimer’s at 58yrs old and lost his words, the best way to describe it. I didn’t resent the fact that he wanted to stay a single man as he brought a lot to my life in other ways. We were not monogamous. We developed fantastic intimacy when we’re were in that space, and I doubt I’ll find anything to compare with it. The reason I’m relating this is because whether a person is Autistic or otherwise they are people!!!! Usually children of abusive or inadequate parents and have to learn to survive growing up, perhaps without protection or guidance of any kind. Their maturing process is made up as they go along because there is no alternative. Some are lucky to find someone who can cope with the behaviours developed by the unfortunate individuals, but many fall into excruciating crises in older age. People, on the whole, don’t choose to be Narcissistic and have no choice regarding Autism either. It’s what life dishes out and therapy is incredibly expensive too. A lot of these unfortunate individuals end up with menial work and cannot afford decent therapy, as not all therapy is appropriate, it’s a minefield and awareness of the condition in question is vital. Catch 22 comes to mind here. The person I encountered six months ago is very highly intelligent and kept telling me he was confused at times and aware I’m being triggered by his behaviour. Inappropriate sexual behaviour was being exhibited too. I have to say I’d not come across this behaviour at all and wondered what was happening, but we never consummated this union as I was very, very unsure about this particular ‘intimate’ activity. He knew he carried something but he didn’t inform me, so I had to presume he had either been diagnosed or had taught himself to be careful in certain areas of his behaviour, mainly due to getting himself into hot water in the past, I imagine. He had been three times married too.
  I liked him a lot and have a lot of experience regarding mental illness due to growing up with a parent’s affliction, but this I hadn’t encountered. When I inadvertently triggered rage in him it was wild and an eye opener, as I can suffer CPTSD, and unfortunately lost a friend of very many years the next day. Consequently I had a melt down myself and put space between us. I felt guilty and sad that he didn’t tell me about his difficulties, but not sure I could have coped with it on an intimate level anyway.
  He is a generous man and good fun to be with but six months was a short time to evaluate the relationship. I wasn’t after marriage as I have learned this isn’t always appropriate for some but it doesn’t mean a relationship cannot develop that will be satisfying for both parties. Marriage is conventional and can be a nightmare to undo. Who says Autism isn’t normal as it has to be normal for an Autistic person doesn’t it, and how does a sufferer explain these difficulties to a prospective partner. There are many dodgy characters that aren’ Narcissistic or Autistic and the stigma attached is unacceptable.
  I could right a book on this subject as lots of people afflicted with these conditions want a decent relationship and to be loved and honoured as most of us do. Maybe they have to be taught, if willing. For a man this is a somewhat embarrassing and diminishing situation and causes stress in itself. But I’m sure lots of couples overcome these difficulties or learn to live around each other in less conventional ways. I’d like to hear from some of these unusual couples as they may be an inspiration for less fortunate individuals. There ain’t no taste in nothing and isolation and acting anti social isn’t the answer either.

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  KMH

  March 10th, 2022 at 12:44 AM

  I appreciate the goals of this article, however the content on autism is very inaccurate and based on outdated misconceptions about autism. As such, the content is potentially dangerous to autistic individuals.

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  Rachel

  April 16th, 2022 at 6:07 PM

  Great info! Thank you so much. I have a narcisstic Mother who thinks she has Asberger’s. If she gets out of hand I just say …” your Asbergers is giving you a different outlook to me” . This works out well because Narcissistic people don’t take responibilty or blame for any of their own behaviour and having a condition to blame works for both of us.
  My way to determine the difference is via the behaviour called “gasslighting”. If they do this, then they are Narcissistic, if they don’t then it is Asberger’s. Also someone with Asberger’s focusses more on themselves, where as the Narcissistic person focusses on criticising and manipulating others.

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  Frederic

  June 9th, 2022 at 9:11 AM

  Even if i had multiple therapies, therapists, psychiatrists. Even if i am myself very smart allowing to study on my own and discover things others couldn’t etc. I just, can’t tell… what exactly i am. I have been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder after years of being considered as bipolar. The bipolar seems to be more like borderline disorder than bipolar even though my family as strong bipolar genes. My family is entirely narcissistics. It’s hard to conceive, it took me 20+ years to figure out myself. I was a smart sensitive autistic kid in a family of monsters. I been destroyed and they tried to ruin my life up to .. erasing it for decades. They teamed up on me to make me guilt trip and think it’s truly me the problem since they all agree that it is me. I suffered so much, went down in alcoolism, drugs, compulsive gambling. Everything to freeze/forget my emotions or life. Later i also discovered solid proof throughout my life that my parents enabled my addictions and used them to destroy me. They pushed me and then sometimes helped or suggested me student loan or something like that, that they would sign for me etc. Everything at the right time to make me fail all i try to achieve and dig dig always with that massive guilt moutain they keep building to push me to suicide. Both.. one after another.. a decade in between each other.. parent tried to kill me. I can prove all my allegations, it’s the sad truth that more than just me live. It’s just that they are not equipped to figure all i could, and the society itself is built to protect narcs and not the opposite. I cannot tell if it was a good thing that my family aside from being all narc monsters, were also all very smart giving me the highest iq/capacities of the family which is mostly (aside from being sensitive) what drove my brothers and parents into a sickening jealousy. They all believed that i had a magical power like a “jedi” and that for me everything in life was easy and that if i didnt achieve anything so far it wasnt because of theeir “help” or because of all my life struggle, nope i was just LAZY. Always been told i am LAZY LAZY … how.. i am ADHD too! Ofcourse that didnt help make my life easier haha can you believe a ADHD senstiive autistic child in a family of cold-hearted monsters… They wanted me to shut up but i jsut wouldnt. And while they were all working on their own masterplans to ruins everyone’s life i was seeing, understanding the lies, manipulations. I figured early that things were wrong, my parents, brothers and other members of my family were doing/saying things that are… horrible often totally illegal. They would constantly say im evil and i ruin everyone’s life and i believed them… but the facts were not adding up. I was not doing much things wrong but they were piling up horribles moves that i started calling out. “hey if why are you doing this or that. Why are you stealing x.. or lying about your friends. Hey everyone look my father is a liar he said he gave me x money but here the proof he never did, he used it to gamble on stock market.” things like that. Oh i was not that “smart” i mean it was crazy to do that but with the list of things i was dealing with (ADHD, autism, bipolar, borderline, ptsd, violence etc) i guess i was allowed to not be perfect? All it did was turn everyone against me even more. It started the retaliation from my entire family that were on a propaganda campaign in all aspect of my life to make sure eveyrone is 100% convinced im a god dam pure monster satan himself and never listen to me… i make up huge lies to destroy everyone bla bla. IT worked. People are not.. really smart in general, sorry for straight talking. That fact made me suffer so much, i believed people to be much smarter, better… I never believed i was a genius or that smart, i just believed i was over the average and it was fine like that. Years and years of therapy and what not forced me to aknowledge… that i often hurt people making them feel stupid or lowered by the way i talk about myself ad my abilities like its just pocket change… normal… making others feel like shit while all i was trying to do … and truly was.. being humble. How could i know i was that good, or had any kind of skills or whatever … my entire family and world kept destroying me all my life. So how could i tell? All my life i had to discover the answers all by myself. I mean therapies and such helped but .. really.. 10% therapy 10% medications 80% my own discoveries and work on myself. Even if i can prove that my father committed horrible crimes against me and my family and frauded his work for millions, nobody listens or care what i say. Even if i explain and show how my mother tried 3 times in 15 years to push me to suicide by enabling gambling and making me have loans i didnt even want. Oh yeah… a mother that knows you got a serious compulsive gambling disorder that go through 6 months of “no dont do that!!” And end up leaving a 12,500$ limit credit card on my kitchen table.. “in case of emergency” … ffs she had done the same 10 years before by making me have a 10,000$ student loan i didnt even need or asked for… that she made me have after i succeeded 1st year of college and my family started to panic at the idea that i could finish my degree and turn against them … so i spent summer working where she lives and have her work my brain for 3 months to end up destroying me just before i go back to school.. with 5,000$ in bank. I had asked to be split per months.. or saved.. nothing.. except split in 2x5k… and second 5k required my mother approval.. ok. 1 month and a half later i lost all im suicidal… but i hide it. I call my mother i tell her about the 5k.. im thinking about therapies, ways to help myself. I was never expecting her… to call bank and release the other 5k in 15 minutes??? How what??? She kept sending me by force to therapies then after enable me to gamble use my father psychological attacks on me or do it herself if need be to take me down down then when at the bottom .. finish me off with a big loan i never wanted. She even pushed me to lose 100,000$ i had won gmabling while i was just tyring to quit knowing it was all going back. She literally panic on me day after day sayng its mafia money i need to lose asap its dangerous! What? I left in her bank money for me still.. i was in shock.. i was the only one in the entire world that knew i had to run .. get rid of the money.. anything but dont leave me on my computer with 100k in bank!!! The world upside down when you dont know yet that your family is a bunch of monsters trying to kill you since childhood… who… would.. even consider that as an option?
  But anyway the novel is getting long again so i’ll leave it there for the story. It says enough i believe. So i have the autistic ways… but i also have narcs traits. Psychiatrists say it’s me that learned, for survival, to mimic my family, my parents. Learn how they behave, think… ahead of time to protect myself from future attacks to my safety etc. Since they were all teaming up on me, i had no allies, i had no help. I developped a 6th sense for dealing with narcs. But, even if i know… i am sensitive, empathic. I loved the world, everyone. Since i left behind all my family.. im always.. at peace. Always calm.. no drama.. no.. nothing. My life is ruined, i live in a foundation for autistic adults that had.. my life. I should be.. i dont know, depressed? My life, is ruined. My family.. hates me with a.. mortal passion. I never truly had gf or friends most were all narcs that had felt my weakness (my parents “work” on me made me behave like well, a weak formatted slave… a perfect target for narcs). So i would not choose my friends/gf … they were chosing me. Guess who was chosing me? Narcs ofc… I had the potential to do whatever i wanted, i even had the hospital CEO of my region offer me a complete scholarship and all expenses to end of university in anything i want as long as its high management or medecine/pharmacy etc. They would pay everything… in exchange of me signinig to work for them after my studies. I had similar relationship with the director of the private college i went to that believed i would be one of his students he could use later in life to show how the college produce geniuses etc. I mean other than my pure grades, the behavior of all the important people around me outside my family says a lot. But.. No… i ahve.. never been happier… or .. less sad? I have no attacks, no one everyday is trying to ruin my life. No one backstab me or do things that enable me to get into much deeper trouble. All my efforts to improve my situation.. bring.. results.. finally! Because nobody is ruining everything i do in my back. Just.. to not be under attack 24/7 all year long… is such a relief… i am.. happy?! Hehe.
  But well, still with such a family… and childhood. With my 3 bro/sis all narc to heavy level it’s sure i was meant to be or .. am i? That’s my biggest question right now. I read the 2 columns.. autism vs narc…. And i checkmark some of boths. Luckily the most vital ones are on the autistic spectrum. I am peaceful, i dont work against others. I dont hate others or have any kind of problem or jealousy. I been rich, my family is rich and it never made anyone happy. I am very smart and could rebuild my life maybe im still 38 yo so i could. So if i know how to get rich, i have the abilities to, why would i envy other’s success? I dont, because i understand that every work or situation have pros and cons. I hate liars and evils but that i have to deal with it as everyone is around me so well ya lol. But the way i dealt with my gf in the 15-22 yo period… was like a true narc… I behaved like my father and i couldnt stand it… so after that from 22 to now.. i stayed single, no children. I couldn’t behave properly for a woman and even less children. I didn’t want to hurt them or have children that would end up like me. So i stayed solo and worked on myself. Psy’s and therapists say it’s impossible that i be narc, impossible. Still i act sometimes.. and do things that are.. truly narcissistic. My father (boss in healthcare) made me get fired after i discovered his fraudulent scheme. Then i was disabled and sent home for life where my parents would try more than ever to finish me off. But that gave me tiime… to study. Years and years looking for answers. It was hard as truly the healthcare and social services are filled with narcs… there to ruin lves and enjoy the contorl they have over people like me. So i did not.. get no help on that side. How can narcs understand me, how can narcs call other narcs for waht they are. They cant or wouldnt. So i could spend all year giving all the examples that proves my point.. no therapist or psy ever acknowledged my story. Still… they can write down on a sheet of paper all the traits and signs i have of all the abuse but then when i put them in front of the reality… they all suddenly become “retarded” on purpose and tell me i blame others for my failures its all my fault i need more more therapy always more therapy! Lol… the good thing is it forced me to figure it all by myself.. i got a master degree in narcissistic disorder lol and now i spot them from miles away. Dont know if it will really serve me in life more than just knowing the truth and feel better but… All i can say is.. (and that’s when i wonder if that is narc behavior or simply just.. the pain and suffering talking) but.. i call them all… sad losers… horrible.. god dam.. losers… Empty shells that destroy lives… hurt everyone.. abuse autism and other things. For what? Nothing because it doesnt make them happy the god dam morons. I can tell you… narcs are stupid.. morons… because their lack of empathy makes them blind and totally unable to get what is going on. Even if they have high IQ’s they are still total retards on a human level and its mostly them that run the society.. wonder why its going so bad? Lol how can society be prosper and happy when it is lead by monsters that work on self-destruction? So i sit on my disability.. i write .. study.. take meds.. smoke some mari to help the anxiety and … i just relax. I watch everyone outside .. its a free-for-all in the world. A total war going on but its not on a military or country level. Its.. 1 by 1.. each individuals.. the society is collapsing and i watch the horror… just happy.. that finally i can just live without all that pain. But my fear is that… the relief is temporary.. i wont be “relieved” for 40 years… What will happen to me… when that moves on.. the emptiness of my life, the whole… thing.. is pretty dam bad. Lol… but heh who knows. I spent my life thinking i was worth nothing… ill try to be worth something now. And more than anything else… i do it.. for me… ME… I try to make myself proud… not others… Thats the weird thing with my condition. I have some narc traits.. autism… i spent my life thinking i was worth nothing because of my family and everything. Now i try to.. get some self-esteem… since no one would ever tell me anything good about myself i had to find it on my own. Nobody will valorize or say good things… so i have to. So on top of all that.. i am trying to convince myself that im smart, good, etc. But then dam that looks so narcissistic. My therapists/psy can repeat me non-stop that its normal in my condition. That i should not worry… it’s impossible not to worry since i know and see everyday all the narcs totally unable to see the problem.. see the face in the mirror… Totally blinded. So i try to open my own eyes, sustain the face in the mirror which i do pretty well these days hehe :) . I try to be as humble and honest as i can but in our world the narcs are everywhere and they abuse it everytime they can… so i had to change. Its hard… i have to act and look strong and “narc” to protect myself while trying to be good and do good around me undercover? Lol… cauz if narcs feed of peoples misery i dont. I feed from people’s happiness. When others succeed. are happy, it makes me happy. I try to make others happy… cauz it makes me .. happy. I am not sane and never will be but i prefer to need to feed from others happiness than the opposite. But its hard… to feed from happiness these days.. everyone is so… in the dark :( . The world changed in the last 2 years… Have you seen? That’s why i stay alone, in my place. Others dont want to see me.. i dont want to see them gg lol. But anyway… if anyone has any ideas id like to hear it. I take everything as its not in a hospital that i willfind the answers i am looking for and looking for people with a title that says they are professional in that is just asking for trouble… narcs love these positions of power… No go. I have therapists and psy because i just have no choice. I try my best with them… but my psy is a narc the type of my father (he physician boss in healthcare) and my therapists… most are narcs too the weak ones like my mother. The ones that work to gain your trust.. work in fields like these.. are nice .. too nice.. then stab you in the back… or when you ask.. the important questions like mine.. they suddenly start working in the same direction aas my family. I cant change the world so i try to take what i can and leave the rest but its complicated. Recently i ran out of food i asked for help nobody cared.. nobody helped.. both my parents said fu starve man you will love it… Like what? I had to write to the director of the foundation here and expose the entire situation in a group email .. to force them into action. It was after almost 2 weeks without a single grain of rice. I wrote that.. i was dying.. humans cant stay alive forever without eating just because … See.. that’s .. narcs stupidity… their lack of empathy.. care.. made them totally unable to understand i lived in a foundation for autistic peep that suffered.. with therapist sand psys… and NO ONE … saw the problem with me asking for help and ways to get food and have Everyone ignore me… The director had even humiliated me in front of everyon else to establish her domination on me… she jumped af when she got my message that was sent to everyone. Thats how i dealt with previous therapist that was trying to destroy me same way as my mother was.I had to write down her acitons and words in a general email to the healthcare departmet where she was working to have them and her figure she had fucked up. They are blind.. they see nothing. Therapists… foundation staff… that have a guy like me.. messed up like me.. living there cauz i cant on my own… ask help.. over and over.. and none understood that ignoring me.. or telling me to deal with it… was.. CRAZY. Its like a surgeon in a surgery room see a person bleeding to death and he’s like “well hope you will clean up the mess when you get better cauz i wont” … and leave… I mean.. its insane… They have 0 logic.. 0 brain. They are dead inside completly. They don’t understand that if you are in a hospital, you must care… help.. thats YOUR JOB. If you build house you build houses! If you go as psy you must want to help, make people feel better.. not destroy them or make them worst. When its a guy like me that has to enlighten the whole god dam healthcare dep of my region … on how its insane to let a autistic guy like me in a foundation cauz i cant live on my own or take care of me fully.. let the guy starve to death! After my email.. they made me pay for it on the spot.. they called ambulance.. said i was being sent to hospital (my family used that to control and scare me… sendm e to hospital calling me crazy without reasons to destory me). I was out of food not sick or going mentally bad! And then 1 therapist.. her boss and the director of the foundation cornered me.. 1 hour beating me saying i should find a work (im disabled! damit!) that its my fault that bla bla.. they tortured me.. guilt trip me.. they enjoyed the god dam narcs they knew they wouldnt have more chances after… THEN after days saying they had no found.. that it was useless to ask … after 1 hour with me on 10 days empty stomach.. dizzy and all lost… they popped food and lied telling me my other therapist was bringing me to food bank last time but i missed the appointment (trying to earn money online to eat!) saying it was all my fault bla bla. 1- they had food, 2- i had asked that therapist to be registered to food bank in case for months… she knew.. so no she was not bringing me anywhere. Its when they dropped the food with my in tears crying cauz i was seeing food… i locked the moment in my head… “never forget… who you live with.. never forget the truth… never forget” . People with mental disorders, sicknesses and what not… they are not going so bad because of their own… the world.. society.. narcs.. healthcare.. everyone is set to destroy them and finish them off directly or indirectly pushing them to suicide. Narcs are the cause of 90%+ of all the problems, pain.. everything in the world. I blame it on others? HELL YA! Because i could sit .. and write down all of this.. all the proof… that shows.. its real. Narcs… if only they could self-destroy each other instead of trying to beat the few “good” people that are left in this world… haa… :(

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  Michael

  June 30th, 2022 at 7:32 AM

  I feel sorry for people reading this trying to get help for their narcissism. Author clearly has major prejudice against people with narcissism. “ Develop healthy, happy connections within other relationships. Don’t expect them in your relationship with the person with narcissism.” What an awful thing to say to someone trying to recover from narcissism.

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  Joanna

  July 19th, 2022 at 2:48 PM

  Goodness me!!!
  Mental health issues aren’t a funny matter are they.
  I’ve read Frederic’s contribution and the confusion and anger he expresses is difficult to read.
  I had no idea how narcissism presented itself in relationships and have read a lot about it as time has passed.
  I also realise I have been happy to get into narcissistic relationships in the past without knowing what I was getting into. Pure innocent ignorance has a lot to do with it as I had no idea I ought to know of these traits…..which I didn’t, I called the behaviour conditions as I had no idea these conditions had names.
  I understand Frederic’s frustration but lots of narcissists don’t know they are afflicted, and I expect some don’t care. If people have no decent care in childhood and adolescence all they can do is put themselves first and take no prisoners. I can see it as a survival strategy but I have realised I need to take responsibility for the relationships I agree to get involved with and this has nothing to do with the narcissist as a relationship has to have agreement and if a participant is taken advantage of it’s a life’s lesson to take seriously. I’m not a young person and I’ve only just come to this conclusion. It’s a complicated subject matter and can cause great distress.
  I hope anyone having been hurt or hurts others’ can stop and take some stock of their own behaviour, as I’ve had to in this last year. It was a bit of a shock to my system but I do feel I’ve grown from these experiences.
  To my mind this is what life and love is but it can also be debilitating to tender souls.
  Frederic, please try to encourage happiness, in yourself, and any person who understands you.
  I’m sure you receive benefits which means you may not understand how to manage you expenses. I hope there is someone in your life to guide you to be responsible for yourself as it sounds this has been missing for you, or you have not understood what was being taught and you may feel threatened by this.
  I wish you luck with your maturation as time moves on. It’s your personal journey and it sounds as though you need specific support, for some reasonable time. It may be painful and frustrating but if you can make a connection with a special support worker I think your life may start to make sense.
  Please don’t underestimate how hard changing your perspective can be!!! We aren’t all bad people you know.
  Best wishes to you.

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  NM

  December 30th, 2022 at 2:18 PM

  We are seeing a trend with people, mostly men who come from families of both NPD on one side and ASD on the other side of the family. We must consider that individuals can be both. As I look at the descriptions of each in this article, what behaviours of each look like in everyday life, it is not as clear cut as it is often made out to be. When we look at the relationships that NPDs get into, the other person is often vulnerable in some way and time and time again, I am finding that when we look at the parents of NPDs, one is NPD and the other is ASD. After working with both populations, it is fair to say that people on the Spectrum are vulnerable to NPDs and it is best to educate society on the behaviours of those with NPDs. There is definitely overlap between the two based on this article and we need to look at people who may be both narcisistic and on the spectrum. How do we recognize the sophistication of humanity and those that give and have gifts while increasing our understanding of the innate motivations of those that take in order to truly thrive and advance?

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  Joanna

  January 4th, 2023 at 4:13 AM

  Time has passed since I wrote those comments and I can say the journey to recover from the relationship with that afflicted person has been very difficult. I was also supporting my brother during his own life’s difficulties due to childhood sexual abuse which I knew nothing about. Some good results for my brother once the assessments were concluded. A COMPLEX TRAUMA TEAM was set up and this turned out to be a life changer where therapy is concerned. Emotional and mental health is such a fascinating subject, and I’m not expert at all. My brother and I just happened to be born to a mother who developed schizophrenia (if this was a true diagnosis back in the 1950’s). I wonder myself, as I learned eventually to to tap into my mother’s sanity, albeit temporarily, which was a gift in itself. Sadly I didn’t realise the gift because, maybe, it could have been developed for the good of emotional difficulties, and changed understanding. I would need some education myself to understand how I developed this understanding as I do feel it’s a positive. I know I have this gift as it comes easily to me if I need to use it, and I have needed to use it from time to time, to protect myself and to guide another if they were willing to look deeply into themselves and their background. I have no control over thiis as it’s the decision of the individual to decide for themselves. I’m not a therapist and don’t profess to be one.
  I am more aware now and conclude that one or both of my parents may have been narcissistic, and one maybe HSP also, which may have brought on schizophrenic symptoms. Drugs, ECT, resting away from the world in a mental hospital did not help. I understand medication is a great deal better these days, but would it have made a difference back then, I doubt it. Too many underlying issues causing the mental illness, I’d say. The issues need to be addressed and they are complex , mind boggling and extremely painful to look at. Courage is needed along with perciverance.
  My family story is full to the brim with the human condition and how it can impact the members of an afflicted family. It has concentrated my mind and I have discovered I’m HSP, something I’d never heard of and I’m taking it seriously after the experience I had Lin 2021. I am at last feeling more stable, and I’m certainly more aware, and hope, some day, to use ALL of my brother’s and my experiences for the good of poorl metal health sufferers and therapists alike. The World and technology is moving so fast and many of us are not equipped to deal with it at all, and not because we aren’t willing. I feel I’m disabled in some way and technology isn’t where I ought to be investing my time and my gifts. I’m NOT an expert in anything but I do feel a strong sense of destiny and have no idea how to tap into it or where it needs to lead. Luckily I was able to find such very excellent therapy for my brother, but more by luck than judgement, believe me. I had a deeper understanding regarding the mind and how it stores memories in a very young child’s body and this was the key to my brother getting a team of therapists behind him. Our story is very sad and very damaging, but we didn’t know that growing up, as we had to survive our family chaos. My brother came through without succumbing to smoking cigarettes, dope, gambling, therapy, or conventional medication. The worst case scenario was a workaholic trait which eventually took it’s toll and the sexual abuse came to light. This happened at a hospital school in the late 1950’s where he was sent away to for six months. He was so young and so small and had no protection, from what I can gather. This brought on the most horrendous fear in him which he still has trouble containing. Childhood traumas need to be dealt with promptly but when these traumas are not understood they show up in the most peculiar ways. I can more often than not recognize this when it happens within someone. It’s the detail that is the secret for this unfortunate person , to be unravelled, somehow , and that is where trust is crucial and most elusive. I have a very interesting inner life trying and making sense of my life to the present moment but have no idea whether all this info could be used to move therapy to a better place with unarguable regulation for all. I would be relieved to leave a legacy.
  Only the Good Lord know where this, our story, may lead.
  Good luck to all of you struggling to understand your own difficulties. Don’t give up as you will be holding the answers for yourself deep inside yourselves. Courage my friends.xx

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  James Turner

  January 4th, 2023 at 6:32 PM

  I read your piece about your life and trouble with interest. I have had a life of complex PTSD from child sexual abuse too. Three major crises, two of them breakdowns each requiring 2 months on a hospital ward. The treatment then was medication and psychiatric ward. It still is for many. When I was recovering from my first breakdown, an understanding friend helped me a lot, talked to me, we talked all afternoon once a week for about a year, many hours! Through his questions and suggestions and understanding and friendship, and also through reading a book by Alice Miller that he recommended, I came to a new understanding, not only of my case, but at the same time of the whole human condition, mental health in general, suffering in general, why there are wars, why real love is so rare, and so on. I learned that my breakdown was caused not by the stress of change of job and moving house to another county. That was just the trigger. And I remembered for the first time that I had been abused as a child. A few months later I had a single, isolated flashback in which I relived about 30 seconds (at most) of horrendous abuse when I was a baby. The flashback was in real time, I felt intolerable pain, and also the emotion of terror. A few months later there was a second flashback. I knew who the abuser was in all three cases. That’s all the worst of the abuse. Then there is the story of the post-trauma. I wouldn’t have survived to write this if I hadn’t had an enormous amount of very good quality help from books, friends and therapists. Given an unlucky start, I have subsequently been extraordinarily lucky. I think my brother and sister, both younger than me, were abused too but they don’t remember anything, and they don’t believe what my story. My brother stopped communicating with me. My sister phones me from time to time, but she doesn’t want to hear any more about my abuse. Neither she and my brother understand what upbringing can do in the way of damage and traumatisation. They both have symptoms, one has very severe migraines that incapacitate her for days at a time, the other gets depressed from time to time and has a continual mild epileptic condition treated by medication which he’ll probably have to go on taking for the rest of his life. I think these are both related to the abuse that I’m sure (but without any evidence) that they received. They are certainly not genetic.
  I hope you and your brother find ways through, may you both find, in your different lives, peace and love. I believe that is always possible. If it happened to me, it could happen to anybody.
  Here are some books that helped me a lot, saved my life in fact.
  1. The First and Last Freedom, by J.Krishnamurti
  2. For Your Own Good, and Thou Shalt Not Be Aware, by Alice Miller
  3 – 6. The 4 great novels of Dostoyevsky (Crime and Punishment, The Idiot, Demons (aka The Possessed), and The Brothers Karamazov
  7. Depression, by Paul Hauck
  8. Rescuing the Inner Child: Therapy for Adults Sexually Abused as Children
  9. The Myth of Normal, by Gabor Maté with Daniel Maté (in a previous edition, entitled When the Body Says No, but I recommend the new edition)
  10. The Body Keeps the Score: Mind, Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma, by Bessel Van Der Kolk
  Fantastic books, I’d recommend them to anyone in recovery, and anyone interested in the human condition.
  Thank you for your GoodTherapy posts.

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  Joanna

  January 5th, 2023 at 1:20 PM

  Thank you James, I appreciated reading about your rather unpleasant experiences, but feel uplifted by your courage, determination and perseverance to get yourself into good and positive emotional and mental awareness . My brother is recovering slowly with the help of the therapy team and is now at the stage where he must understand the importance of moving through and beyond his experiences. I feel it’s not going to be easy for him but there is no going back now.
  I will note these books, one of which he was recommended by his therapist….The Body Keeps The Score. He found it fascinating and helpful.
  Thank you again for making contact and please take very good care of yourself….Mind, Body and Soul. Joanna.

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  Delilah

  January 22nd, 2023 at 3:10 AM

  My partner of 8yrs feels told me he was aspergers, but looking at those charts, I think he’s probably 1/3 narcissist. I’m very easy going although not a push over. When he has a rage it’s off the scale! I don’t feel scared or anything and he usually storms out and drives to him mums 17 miles away, returning in two or three hours. It doesn’t bother me at the time, but the next couple of days I’m shaky inside and feel a bit sick. I told him this once and he said maybe you shouldn’t be with me then. Maybe I shouldn’t. We used to go out every Saturday, but now he pulls a face if I wanted to go somewhere, so we don’t. But we do have good times and the rages only happen every 5 or 6 months. What gets me most is he takes no interest in the house, I own the house and he moved in with me from living with his parents. Now, I’m older than him and odds are he will be left with the house, but it annoys me he puts nothing into it. He’s just not interested. No DIY, repairs, painting or buy things for the house, I feel like he doesn’t deserve it! While I fret over finding best power deals, house insurance etc, he doesn’t even notice and sits on his x box!! Am I moaning too much?

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  Joanna

  January 24th, 2023 at 3:53 AM

  Delilah
  Why do you let him live with you?
  Do you feel you are accepting his lack of input?
  I have experienced one of the rages and they are pretty Soul shaking events.
  What ‘does’ he contribute as the isolation you are feeling isn’t healthy for you. We all need enjoyment in life. Does he object if you want to go out independently, and if so he may well be narcissistic in his behaviour.
  Life is for living and you are, maybe, being a host to a parasitic personality and you are beginning to become aware that it will get no better.
  Of course the house won’t pass to him unless you make provision. If it’s housing trust accommodation the tenancy will not transfer to him unless it’s joint tenancy of course.
  You can ask him to leave if you have the courage, as maybe living separately will give you both more freedom to run your own lives independently, especially financially.
  And no you aren’t grumbling unnecessarily as you are in effect keeping him, and he isn’t a dependent child, he is supposed to be a partner.
  Have you spoken to him about this area of your relationship or are you concerned you will trigger a rage. This could be interpreted as intimidation and abuse of your easy going nature.
  It sounds as though you may have to make a stand and for yourself as life will not change until you do.
  Take care with this as you may need support when you tackle this issue.
  A relationship counsellor would be a good start if you find he is willing to do this.
  Good luck whatever you decide to do, and do value yourself as you know it’s not an ideal situation for yourself and your future together.
  Very kind regards,
  Joanna

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  ELIZABETH

  June 8th, 2023 at 5:01 PM

  Reading all this ,makes me realize that my husband has both ,I wish could understand more about it but,the truth is I’m so tired ,I don’t even want to talk to him or fix anything of this with him, we been leaving together for more than 16 years ,and still don’t understand how he thinks. He is good man hardworking ,but I work a lot too ,anyways he is antisocial as soon as we go somewhere where there’s a lot of people ,I can see how he changes his attitude right away I’m always concern how he is going to act ,because sometimes he get’s mad
  about simple things that I would never imagine he is going to get mad ,we get in arguments ,he stops talking to me for days sometimes weeks and I have to be the to fix the problem and ask him we he acts lie that ,he regrets and apologize ,but the he does it again ,I don’t even know what to do, but I feel no desire to continue on this relationship he gets mad for everything I can’t handle it anymore ,we have had fights over family ,jealous ,kids ,money ,you name it,I need advice I feel bad for my 6 yr old girl ,she loves him,and feel bad for him he has no family,the only family he has is mine.

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  kman

  September 29th, 2023 at 9:03 AM

  These are all severely outdated societal misperceptions of both narcissism and asperger’s, from a society that fears and is nasty toward anyone who thinks different, or is struggling. It’s really unfortunate to be in a world where those who are ‘outcasted’ get further shamed and further ostracized. I’m not sure why in the last few years, there’s suddenly this huge revolt against people who challenge the system, being referred to as “selfish,” and all that baloney. Often (and I speak from experience here), someone who is dealing with a heavy and unfair situation and tries to open up about it, and just wants to be heard and understood is accused of more than half of the things from the narcissist column. We are living in a very threatening and unsafe time, and most of this is just societal misperceptions from those who aren’t ‘struggling in the same way’ and it’s their failure to empathize that they misperceive those who are as control freaks and power mongers, when in fact it’s they can’t recognize their own need to have power—and really to say “feeling sorry for oneself” is narcisstic–give me a break! What a sick joke this article is!

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  Tom

  October 9th, 2023 at 9:37 PM

  I am sorry, but high functioning autistic people can deceive and manipulate too. It is like not all high functioning autistic adults learned how to drive when they were teens; that is why not all of them can drive. Abilities that are learned at a young age, later are well mastered and never forgotten. The same happens with autistic children who learned deceiving behaviors from others, so when they become adults, they know how to be crafty, deceitful, and manipulative. Some high functioning autistic adults like to claim they do not know when they are lying, but they do as they exactly know when to do it. They are misleading and deceitful to fit the circumstances and protect themselves, and they usually lie to cover up themselves instead of others.

  Moreover, it is also erroneous to say that autistic people do not blame others. They do and keep complaining about others’ faults. They also sit on the “pity pot” and feel sorry and dramatize about themselves. When someone lacks human feelings is hard for those individuals to see the injury and damage caused to others. Both the narcissist and the autistic person can only see the wrongs done to them respectively as they cannot acknowledge other people’s feelings and needs. Lacking human feelings makes you a monster no matter what. And by reading some testimonies here, I can attest that the aftermath of such destructive self-seeking behaviors is devastating regardless of the intent or diagnosed of the doers.

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  AutistPhD

  December 21st, 2023 at 5:56 PM

  This is a reply to Tom: Whoa dude, you are way off base. Saying that Autists “lack human feelings” is baseless and incredibly cruel and ignorant. You seem to be in a lot of pain, and I am sorry for you for that, but lashing out and making huge generalizations about Autistic people is not cool. We are actually more neurologically diverse than neurotypicals, and we are certainly not “monsters”. I wonder on what experience or scholarship you base your very confident assessment of neurodivergent people?

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